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Old 11-09-2006, 01:21 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
How does a 5-cell pack in a race touring car effect the 15-year old kid playing with his monster truck in the front yard?





These are racing and competition rules we're talking about, right?
Exactly.

ROAR isn't, and should never be, the overseer of all things RC cars. They set up racing rules only.

When that kid decides to come to the track for the first time with a 6-cell, 15 turn RTR...not very many racers/clubs are going to turn him away. They'll simply have him run in their Novice class, or among the stock trucks. His lack of driving skills and racing equipment is going to be zero threat to any of the hardcore people. That extra cell in his battery and/or a "faster" RTR motor will likely make it MORE difficult for him to get around the track.

Touring cars will be no different. If a kid comes out with a TT01, 6-cell pack, and a 540J motor...he's not going to be a threat to anyone.
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:22 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
Maybe we should have no national organization and let the regional clubs work it out and form there own group? This is what is happening anyway with the majority. Maybe the people have already spoken and those who feel they are in power need to begin to listen.
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MR. Black... You nailed in on the head with that last paragraph.
I agree Sir! Or at least a NEW organization.
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:25 PM   #93
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DerekB for Prez! Making constructive points without arguing like a 2 year old.....don't see that to often on here.

Same to you Mr. hodge... thanks.

I'm confused....why do we need to slow down modified???? That's what stock and 19 turn are for. The Busch racers don't complain to NASCAR to slow down the cup cars so they can race too. One small point I could make.... I'm not sure about everyone elses local track but do you happen to notice how people tend to gather at the edge of the track when mod class is up? At my local track we have a few "pro" drivers. When they go BLASTING down the straight everyone gets a smile on there face. It's FUN to watch. Most understand they can't run mod and they still go back to work on their
"slower" stock sedans with a smile.
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:29 PM   #94
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When they go BLASTING down the straight everyone gets a smile on there face. It's FUN to watch.
Amen.
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:30 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Mongo
vtl1180ny - I already do with no complaints... as do most of the other people I race with. I am not sure where you are, but Parking Lot Racing (PLR) is pretty strong. Yeah, we would love to have a permanent spot to race, but no one complains that we have to blow a parking lot clean in order to race.



MR. Black... You nailed in on the head with that last paragraph.

We have ZERO parking lot racing going on here....

I'm refering to the people buying a car and meeting up with their buddies on an unprepared surface....

TC was started by the bashers because Pan Cars suck on an unprepared surface. But the direction TC has gone has totally forgot where it came from...

The only company still catering to the parking lot bashers is Traxxas.... Kinda of funny since they used to be the race vehicle to have...
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:41 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy who?
When they go BLASTING down the straight everyone gets a smile on there face. It's FUN to watch. Most understand they can't run mod and they still go back to work on their
"slower" stock sedans with a smile.
Personally, when I watch them I think:

"I would be doing that if the motors and speed controllers weren't shutting down/blowing up, chewing a set of tires up every 2 runs max, and if I didn't have to run some wacky MIT-designed heatsink/fan system."
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:05 PM   #97
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wacky MIT-designed heatsink/fan system."
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:06 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
We have ZERO parking lot racing going on here....

I'm refering to the people buying a car and meeting up with their buddies on an unprepared surface....

TC was started by the bashers because Pan Cars suck on an unprepared surface. But the direction TC has gone has totally forgot where it came from...
I think this is a very important point that get's forgotten TC started many say when 1:10 and 1:12 scale got "too fast and too expensive" some say going to four cells years ago was going to bring back 1:10 and 12th well I have always wanted to run pan cars for years but I am still waiting for this comeback. 1:12 though cheaper then TC is still pricey to run for what you get because materials in the chassis and tires not batteries makes it so.

Also I remember it was not the cars themselves that did not work on parking lot's it was the foam tires and the lack of ground clearance and suspension. Well there are a couple of manufactures who make pan style cars that use traditional sedan tires and wheels (Tamiya, CRC, MLP) on here with threads dedicated to their cars and they keep coming to the top as much as some of the top TC's maybe this is a sign?
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:07 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy who?
DerekB for Prez!
Based on everyone's concerns for the future he would get my vote hands down.
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"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:31 PM   #100
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I haven't seen this point brought up but I think it's a valid one (feel free to shoot me down, it will not change my view)

Just to use the facility in our area costs $20. For $20 I can take my girl to the movies, have a great time and be able to talk about the movie among average people. RC racing is it's own world, I personally don't see how it can be successful unless the average person is able to join, understand and enjoy it.

Maybe RC racing is not ment to be successful. We could be trying to save a hobby in vain. In NorCal, it is almost impossible to get a group of people together to enjoy RC in a parking lot or driveway. Average people see the costs and become discouraged. $200+ on an RC car that needs money to be consistantly put into it, or $250 for a guitar setup that you don't have to pay a fee everytime, or go to some forsaken building, miles away, to enjoy.

People have told me "If you don't like the way racing is, don't race, go bash in a parking lot" Unfortunetely, average people don't see the appeal for the money spent on our cars...therefore it's almost impossible to find someone who would be interested. I can go to a party at my friend's place, play my guitar and be able to meet people, attract people who don't play. If I went to a party at my friend's place with an RC car, I'd probably get laughed at walking in with all the stuff, charging batteries, people knowing how much money was spent on the stuff. It is simply not marketable to average people.

The RC racing world is a clique....there is no way around that.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:39 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Personally, when I watch them I think:

"I would be doing that if the motors and speed controllers weren't shutting down/blowing up, chewing a set of tires up every 2 runs max, and if I didn't have to run some wacky MIT-designed heatsink/fan system."
This does NOT happen at club races or in any other main than the A or B at a big race. This is where things are pushed. Most people who race mod never can drive well enough to push the limits...that's why factory drivers race, to test the limits of equipment so the average guy. That is the case at EVERY race I've been in. I race Mod at the Reedy and I'm in the F-Main. Never blew anything up, never shut down, never had anything but a challenge to go faster. And I can say up to the B-Main is where drivers are pushing the limits, again like they are supposed to.

This "Every thing Blows up" BS is from the Worlds or other big races where Factory drivers cry about their equipment failing...they can slow down and not fail with me in the F, or push it and risk "blowing up" But every time I hear this "you need 8 fans, and all that crap" is not true, and most of the people posting it don't run mod, or really aren't blowing anything up.

We need fans because we haven't evolved with motors, and that is from rules. Like I said before brushless was an opportunity to make motors that could handle higher current and not have problems, but ROAR chose to push it into the rules too fast and not let the technology figure out where it needed to be

If we wanted to stop technology we can still run 1200s and hot 14-turn mod. If you want to run slower..run the slower class. Don't slow down F1 so you can think you have a chance.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:43 PM   #102
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I actually just noticed this forum. I guess the title had changed since I believe it started as a discussion topic regarding EFRA’s decision to run 5-cell?

Just for the record, my opinion on this topic or any other critical topic is not the deciding factor with respect to changes at ROAR. In this case, it is the responsibility of the electric committee to make suggestions to the excom for consideration. The same is true with other forms of racing. ROAR has various committees which make suggestions for the excom to consider. The goal is to work with others, not rule from one seat.

However, to be consistent with what I’ve posted on other forums. IMO, the “stock” class of racing needs to become the ideal class for novices. I’ve always looked for ways to discourage experienced / factory racers from participating in the “stock” class. I thought the 19T class would have help, but all it has done is reduce the number of drives racing modified.

The reality of racing, especially electric has changed in the past 15+ years since I’ve been racing. Because of the limitation with battery technologies (we all remember SCE’s) modified use to be a class that was manageable / drivable and sort the average to highest talent. Stock at the time, was a true novice class.

Today, battery technology has advanced so far that racing modified is only fun for the extremely talented (or those who like rebuilding). Stock racing speeds are relatively fast, so many of us enjoy the pace. This has attracted a lot of highly experienced racers signing up for stock.

19T was supposed to cure this. Problem is now, the same “experienced / factory” racer signs up for stock and 19T. IMO this discourages novice from participating. What’s the point of a newbie registering for stock when he has pull over 9 times for a factory racer?

We should encourage “Stock” to be the accessible class for novices, to do so you need to get rid of the attraction for top drivers to race in “stock”. The only was to do this is to reduce the speeds.

Therefore, I support the concept of a 4-cell stock sedan class (as an example). Why EFRA decided to go with 5-cells, you have to ask them?

Sidebar: What I’d really like to see is 10 minute racing for 1/12th scale and 8 minutes for 1/10th scale (on-road and off-road), especially at club / regional events. The length of the race will force drivers to plan a race strategy, reduce the turn “one” wonders and will slow the cars down to more manageable speeds, which will spark more interest in modified racing.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:44 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
I haven't seen this point brought up but I think it's a valid one (feel free to shoot me down, it will not change my view)

Just to use the facility in our area costs $20. For $20 I can take my girl to the movies, have a great time and be able to talk about the movie among average people. RC racing is it's own world, I personally don't see how it can be successful unless the average person is able to join, understand and enjoy it.

Maybe RC racing is not ment to be successful. We could be trying to save a hobby in vain. In NorCal, it is almost impossible to get a group of people together to enjoy RC in a parking lot or driveway. Average people see the costs and become discouraged. $200+ on an RC car that needs money to be consistantly put into it, or $250 for a guitar setup that you don't have to pay a fee everytime, or go to some forsaken building, miles away, to enjoy.

People have told me "If you don't like the way racing is, don't race, go bash in a parking lot" Unfortunetely, average people don't see the appeal for the money spent on our cars...therefore it's almost impossible to find someone who would be interested. I can go to a party at my friend's place, play my guitar and be able to meet people, attract people who don't play. If I went to a party at my friend's place with an RC car, I'd probably get laughed at walking in with all the stuff, charging batteries, people knowing how much money was spent on the stuff. It is simply not marketable to average people.

The RC racing world is a clique....there is no way around that.
A few points that people need to realize. Racing anything isn't cheap, there is no law that it has to be affordable, but realistically it will never be.

THere is a reason why the RC demographic goes from 8-15 and then picks up at about 22-23. Girls and other "regular activities' that take money (aka hormones) take over. You can do a lot of things with money other than what you spend it on. My real car has a ton of money that I could have done other things with, but that's why it's a hobby..where we waste money on crap we don't need.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:49 PM   #104
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If you dont want Factory guys running stock just change the name to "Novice Stock" and keep that name for any major race. Do that and you probably wont see many companies advertising that they are a "Novice Stock Champion"
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:54 PM   #105
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I have said this before in a previous thread.......

If your equipment is failing, it is most likely your skills that are the limiting factor - not the equipment. As Derek mentions, only the top 10-20 guys in the world are really pushing the limits of the equipment.

When you are cooking a motor or ESC, its because you are trying to go beyond your God or god given talents. The solution is practice.

O yes, that timing ring seems like a very easy way to shave a few tenths off your lap times, doesn't it? Well, you would be better off visiting your local track on an off day and putting down a hundred laps to find the extra tenth with 5 degrees less timing. Your motors, batteries, and ESCs will thank you.
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