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Old 11-08-2006, 07:41 AM   #31
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Mike Queller will never reply, he does not comment on mediums like this one ( IMHO, very short sighted and elitest) then again.....
Eddie and Carl, I am sure will reply in time.


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Originally Posted by McSmooth
Good to see the three Presidential candidates have decided to chime in.

*sarcasm*
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:51 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Good to see the three Presidential candidates have decided to chime in.

*sarcasm*
Just a thought, it may be better to have your question posted in the threads that each of them has started for the purpose of answering such questions.

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Old 11-08-2006, 07:55 AM   #33
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I think McSmooth's thread is a good way to get thier opinions back to back.



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Originally Posted by raffaelli
Just a thought, it may be better to have your question posted in the threads that each of them has started for the purpose of answering such questions.

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Old 11-08-2006, 08:41 AM   #34
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all,

Why are we burning our motors and esc's lately? Why are we destroying our tires in 1 or 2 runs.
Basically because battery development is going faster than development of motors, esc's, tires...

Because of our batteries, I think everybody agrees on this, so I think we should freeze and create a controlled standard for batteries the same as we did with the tyres (CS27, ...)

Ifmar could approve only 1 type off cell per manufacturer per year for a given cell. Basically it is what they are doing right now. But for example IB has been coming out with at a new type of 4200(HV, SHV,...) every other week and they can do this, it seems to me as if there is a hole is the regulation.
By freezing the batteries(yearly or every 2 years), I think we can do good for the hobby.
Maybe going to 5cells will also help, but I don't see a long term advantage here, this would be like waiting a few years and we are back where are now... and the battery war will go on!!!!

But in my opinion Ifmar should decide and the rest should follow... If Europe, Japan, Asia, USA all do different things everything will become more expensive and eventually this will do no good to our beloved hobbie...

But hey this is just another opinion...

We need some good, clearminded people in our governing bodies who are not related to manufacturers in any form as this will have influence on their mindsetting...
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:42 AM   #35
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why dun they extend it to 10min instead of 5 min i do not believe the new battery technology will support 7turn motor that long. just like JMRCA they runing 8 min instead of 5 min.
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:05 AM   #36
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so they can't run 7t for 8-10 mins..then they dump and the guy that ran a motor that runs for that long wins.....same reason 1/12 scale guys dont run that motor, simple


if we keep pumping up MAH and voltage no motor esc tech will deal will that heat, that's why we need more run time

I ran 4 mins with 1200mah batts back in the day....so now 4300 and only 5 min, that is wrong

and again why change everything right when a whole new technology is coming or here? so we can buy all new stuff again in 6months and defeat the whole purpose....
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:37 AM   #37
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Quote:
if we keep pumping up MAH and voltage no motor esc tech will deal will that heat, that's why we need more run time
I ran 4 mins with 1200mah batts back in the day....so now 4300 and only 5 min, that is wrong
Then, obviously, we know where the out-dated technology lies. Hence, my suggestion to put a cap on battery limitations for, at least, the larger events year to year (or even semi-annually) until the motor and ESC technologies catch up in order to keep things on a somewhat level playing field for all racers. 5 Cells is only a temporary quazi solution to the problem. Again, if it attracts more racers to modified and controls some of their issues, then its a great bandage for the time being.

And you thought 1700SCE's were revolutionary..
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilezb
all,

Why are we burning our motors and esc's lately? Why are we destroying our tires in 1 or 2 runs.
Basically because battery development is going faster than development of motors, esc's, tires...

Because of our batteries, I think everybody agrees on this, so I think we should freeze and create a controlled standard for batteries the same as we did with the tyres (CS27, ...)

.
might not be
it could be the fact we are still using 1975 designed motors !!!
Drivers are over gearing to be fast
tyre manu are making tyre`s to soft

But also i run 27t & 19t & i don`t blow my stuff ,so should i suffer No. but i will join the gang & use what is legal & avalable to race with
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:52 AM   #39
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Restrictor plate racing hits the Mod class, drafting will turn into the next fine art.

Disagree with stoping or even holding back battery development, for the average racer, me, it has given me the chance to buy close to top of the line batteries at a lower cost than just average 3000, 3300. I remember buying the hot 3000's for over $100, now I can get hot 4200's for $70. That has cut the cost of racing dramaticly.
Ya cant stop progress, but you can slow the cars down with batts and still let motors develop.
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:59 AM   #40
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i have a son (Harry 9yrs) had about 10 meets so far
get`s out of the bottom final now .is he talented No. just another youngster who wants a go racing with he`s Dad

reason why he is doing well in such a short track time
i deliberatly make he`s car slow , 3 things i do
1)under gear he`s car
2) uses the crappest 27t motor i have
3) use`s the crappest 3 season old 33`s i used to have

coz he goes slow he gets round the track with out to much bumping & breaking , he get`s full races most of the time & does well

other kids go past him down the straight but come the corner ,he`s back there again or past them

every dad/person has there way of teaching youngsters to race
mine is make him go slow then build up


4 cell 27t will be a good teaching platform for beginneers
then 6 cell 27t for complete madness racing
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:26 AM   #41
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I am not seeing much debate over whether or not Roar should follow the rest of the Blocks. We seem to be focused on the battery technology. Cells have been chopped out over the years and has always proved better in the end. As a 12th scale driver, I could not imagine putting 6 cells back into the car. 7 cells back into mod off road? wow! 5 cell Touring should be quite do-able.

Forget battery tech here... should Roar follow what everyone else is about to do?
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:36 AM   #42
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Quote:
Forget battery tech here... should Roar follow what everyone else is about to do?
Yes...Absolutely, and maybe even consider it (after testing) across the board in all TC classes.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:54 AM   #43
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'Everybody else' can't agree on what to do either...

Japan is on 4-cell and EFRA is on 5....

As much as I don't think that the number of cells and voltage is the issue...if a change is to be made, I think that 4-cell would be preferred over 5....odd numbers of cells place your battery connection points on opposite sides of the pack...a minor quirk that becomes a hassle with the bast majority of current touring car designs.

I think that the hyper-competitive 'win at all costs' mentality at many of the tracks is what is keeping new racers away, not the number of cells. The touring classes have become firecely competitive and many feel self-conscious when they go to tracks or to an event and are being yelled at or bulled off the track by overzealous racers who feel that they can do as they please.

There is a thread here on rctech talking about the Japan nationals where they are running 4 cells with 5 turn motors and are struggling to make runtime to keep speeds up. How is this any different than the current state of running 6cell and 7turn?
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Hodge
I am sorry Mike, I do not agree with your conservative approach here.



It does not worry you that these battery issues are going to change TC racing? These battery changes could help influence more people to come into the hobby rather than scare them away.

It does not worry you that racers have to use 2 multiple fans and expensive cooling devices to keep their electric TC's running for 5 minutes?

It does not bother you that racers have to change their brushes each run to make their motors efficient to run in mod?

With a less cell or cells we will be able to have cars that are slower. Now to most of your this is not important however to the newbie it is. How do you get someone into this hobby and try to drive these car as fast as they are going? Then when they are going this fast convince them to stay in the hobby when they melt their motors each run, tear up tires each run, and break parts?

Another opinion I have is that I think we need to stop the battery development. Make IB4200's WC the last cells we use for the next two years. These new batteries every couple months are causing people to get burnt out on this hobby. It is bad enough with tires let alone the development of new batteries to buy all the time. I understand the manufacturers like the money coming in from the sales of batteries however this is hurting our racing on the local, regional, and national level. Now these batteries are so good. Why do we need better? You can run a mod TC for 5 minutes flat out and come off with a minute of run time. Another problem with all the new battery developments is that they are not reliable. It seems the IB cells tend to break after so many runs. How is this good?
No, no, No. First most clubs don't run mod, so why make universal changes to the hobby, and more important the segment that makes money...RTR/basher. If you can honestly tell me that at club races people are pushing their "cough" outdated motors so hard they have 11 fans, then you have an arguement. But I have, and seen many club races and the few that run mod don't need 11 fans. It's like thinking that because F1 engines blow up in 2 races that they should make a production Ferrari a 4 cyclinder.

What do people as about every car.."How fast and how much" they don't care about much else, those are the people making the industry money. NOT the few people who get it all for free and complain when their stuff blows up. If you're not on the verge of blowing up, you aren't pushing it to be the fast guy. Which is OKAY...it's OKAY to be in the D-Main and race against people of the same skill and budget. Racing is segmented into "price" already.

SLOWING things down is not the solution, it's as much a solution to solving a dam breaking by evaporating all the water.

People aren't getting out of TC racing because it's too fast, they do it because it's too expensive in general. Cars used to be $249...now they are near $500. Why not complain about that? Instead we want to beleive that taking a cell away will do something...and it will.

In 3 years do you think Novak, LRP and any other ESC manufacturer will be over-specing their ESCs? No, they build to the level of the need. IF you don't need to be able to handle 6-cells then they won't make it. We didn't ditch 7-cell because things were blowing up, it was because we raced off-road and didn't need it.

Anybody that thinks they need to go to 4-cells should just go race off-road again, and remember that it's not all about motor or cells. Did AE do better with 5-cell? Sure, but you can do the same thing with different motors, or current limiting.

Moving to slower will do nothing for the hobby...How fast does it go will be now a slower less appealing number.

The batteries will still be a problem, the cells will still wear out for the highest level of competition.

If you can't handle the "speed" race stock, race 19-turn. And if you can't be in the A-main for mod...be happy with where you are. We all can't be A-Main drivers, and it's not the speed that is making people move out of TC racing. Speed is what draws us.

Put pressure on motor/esc companies to build stuff that lasts. If a company can do that....that's what consumers will buy. It's simple.

We had an opportunity with brushless to change technology to adapt to these higher power batteries and we chose to make the brushless the same as the current motors, so they go the same set of problems.

Higher voltage, would actually increase runtime and reduce heat, IF used with a system designed for it. They use 42-volt systems in helicopters for reduced heat and longer run times. There is a reason for that.
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Old 11-08-2006, 02:20 PM   #45
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The drivers trying five cells at the off-road world championships still had the six cells in the car as required by the rules, just five cells were used for power. The track was rough and slick, and the guys trying five cells (who didn't win) were using lower wind motors than the guys using 6 cells. Certainly not a good example to use for touring car.

ROAR should simply follow IFMAR's rules period.

just make a separate 4 and 5 cell set of classes. why not. You guys already have stock, 19 turn, modified, asphalt, carpet with foams, carpet with rubber, pro, and sportsman classes. Might as well throw in another couple of classes and thin out the classes a little more and give the average joe's another class to get beaten in by overpopulated factory-direct customers, err, I mean sponsored drivers.
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