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Old 11-06-2006, 06:38 PM   #1
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Default Roasted brushes on my new Check Point motors

I'm NOT bashing CP, but I would appreciate some gearing advice.
This past Sunday, was my first time using Checkpoint motors, and I've roasted the brushes in both of them...
In my Xray T2, I was running Fantom and Brood tuned Epic 19 turn spec motors. I should mention this is a medium sized track, and I'm running foam tires on carpet. I was geared 23/84 and 58mm tires, which gave me a roll-out of 29.35mm. These motors were coming off the track warm to the touch, but not burning hot.
This past Sunday, the CP's were coming off over 200 degrees F. I was using the same gearing, and 59mm tires which give a roll-out of 29.85mm. I even tried a 20 tooth pinion which gave a roll-out of 26mm. Now, I have to cut both comms, and replace the brushes. (Which here in Manitoba, are $14.00 a pair! ouch. )
The gear mesh was fine, there is no binding in the drive-train, and although the diffs seemed loose, I tightened them for one of the runs, and it didn't have any impact on the motor temps.
This motor was broken in using my Victor... which runs the motors for 3 minutes and varies the voltage from about 2 volts up to 5 volts and back again repeatedly.
Is it possible that the motors simply weren't broken in enough? Would this cause high temperatures?
Any input is appreciated.
Stuart.
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Old 11-06-2006, 07:09 PM   #2
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I've done that on my first CP 19T money motor. The problem is on the new ones, comm is not round that's why you burn the brushes. So what I did on my the new ones I have is I cut the comm first and then break it in for 10 minutes before you run it. And wallaaaa problem solved and also for TC standard brushes and springs won't cut it. Replace it with infinity brushes and silver springs this thing is a rocket and gear it to the moon. I never run any 19T motor other than CP 19T money motor thats why I have 4 of them.
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Old 11-06-2006, 07:19 PM   #3
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You do have to break in the infinity brushes for a long time, even then my cp money's still run pretty hot. I gear to about a 30mm rollout on carpet with foams, and it usually comes off the track at about 190 degrees. Yes, it is hot but I do not notice any motor fade, and my brushes (infinity) last about 25 runs.
I skim the comm about every 10 runs, and it normally only takes one pass, .001"
to clean it up. Long story short, I abuse the heck out of my cp money motors and they still perform great! I can't really ask for more. Running outside offroad in my bj4 they were coming off the track over 200 degrees.
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Old 11-06-2006, 07:58 PM   #4
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The only brushes I can get locally are the 6 cell Infinity, and the 4 cell Atlas. It is the Infinty that I have bought, so I'm good there. I don't know what springs the motor comes with though... Will I be allright to use the stock springs with the Infinty brushes?
So... you think my experiance was an out-of-round comm and insuffucient break-in? I hope you're right, as I would hate to have to rebuild after every run.
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:04 PM   #5
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Hey Stu

Tasso ran one 2 extra teeth on his pinion and I ran one, my motor ran cold the first two heats but got warm on the third. Problbly because I didn't even look at it.
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:07 PM   #6
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the stock copper spring is too soft the brushes will bounce. Try to get some silver brushes they are medium hard this will make the brushes to have good contact with the comm.
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:09 PM   #7
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The standard springs are soft/meduim where the silver springs are medium/hard. The silver springs with the infinity brushes really bring the motor to life. Also seems like your rollout is a little low. Motors that are undergeared tend to get VERY hot. I roll my Money's out from 31-32mm on medium/technical carpet. I run the infinity brushes for about 15 runs with 2 comm cuts. During break in, I have found that if the motor is around 6.5-7 amps it is a screamer. Are you using any fans on the motor while you are running?
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:29 PM   #8
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Hey Cam,
I checked my roll-out against Evan, and found I was pretty close... I thought I was in the ball park but I guess not.
Glowster21,
No, I don't run any kind of fan.

Well, I guess I'll cut the comms and get Infinity brushes into them. (I've discovered that they come with the 4 cell Atlas brush) I'll try to find the silver springs, but I don't know how successful I'll be. I'll gear it up too... It looks like a 24 or 25 pinion will bring me into that 31mm-33mm range.

Thanks for the replies... keep them coming if you have any other ideas...
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Old 11-06-2006, 09:16 PM   #9
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I agree with the post above about the springs... The stock gold springs are too soft, almost like they were for 4-cell oval or something... It is very easy to get brush bounce with those springs, which just "eats" brushes and makes the motor run HOT...

Changing to Silver springs really picks up the performance, but also virtually eliminates brush bounce!
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:49 AM   #10
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Thistle:

Hi,

We ran into the same problem at first. then we cut the coms and went to the silver springs and different brushes.
we geared up... just like our Reedy 19t QM.
LMK if you need any springs/brushes. if they're hard to get by you.

Thanks
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Old 11-07-2006, 06:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thistle
Hey Cam,
I checked my roll-out against Evan, and found I was pretty close... I thought I was in the ball park but I guess not.
Glowster21,
No, I don't run any kind of fan.

Well, I guess I'll cut the comms and get Infinity brushes into them. (I've discovered that they come with the 4 cell Atlas brush) I'll try to find the silver springs, but I don't know how successful I'll be. I'll gear it up too... It looks like a 24 or 25 pinion will bring me into that 31mm-33mm range.

Thanks for the replies... keep them coming if you have any other ideas...
If you can't find springs or have brush issues call Dave at SpeedzoneHobbies at 860-436-2532. He has TONS in stock, takes paypal, and will ship them to you if need be. You can click on the Speedzonerc link in my sig to go to the shops site, but you can't shop online. I would also recommend a fan or 2 on the car. Dave also has the Tamale fan mounts in stock along with Much More or Associated fans.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:43 PM   #12
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TIMXLB... good to hear from you again. Thanks for the offer. A local shop has already ordered the various springs, but they won't arrive until Friday or Saturday. (Provided they're not back ordered). I was thinking I might have to check with Teamanager to see if he has them in stock.
Glowster21... I've been thinking about fans for a while... I was looking at the cool-can-fan version. I'll check into the fans you mentioned, and see if I like the look of them.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:26 PM   #13
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Spring/brush combination above is a must. Gearing them too low will also run 'em hot.

If running foams, try a room temp CP about 8 to 10 laps with it geared around 32mm rollout and then check the temp. If its not above 170F, then try a full run at that gearing, check the temp and go up or down from there.
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:37 PM   #14
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Thistle:

Hi,

I have been wondering how you and Teamanager have been. it's been awhile since I've seen you (or him) post.
once you get the right springs/brushes you'll really like the C/P 19t.

Thanks
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:40 PM   #15
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IT MIGHT SOUND CRAZY TO YOU BUT YOU MIGHT NEED TO GEAR IT UP IF YOURE UNDERGEARED IT WILL RUN VERY VERY HOT I RUN MY 19 TURN CHECKPOINT MOTORS USUALLY 10 TO 15 RUNS BEFORE I EVEN LOOK AT THEM SO MAYBE TRY GEARING UP JASON
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