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Old 01-08-2007, 02:31 PM   #571
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You should try BSR tires... the charts are clear. Best on the market!!


http://www.bsr-racing.com/foam/12thscale.html
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:53 PM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
I'm really not sure why manufacturers don't get off their butts and make some decent charts with at least this info as a minimum:
Our Designation, shore rating, rubber type.

This way, regardless of who makes the tire, you could say, "I'm running American 35 shore", or "Japanese C, 40 shore".

<stepping off of soapbox now>
I agree...this color system we still use is out dated to say the least. I wouldn't mind going to all shore rating like 1/8th scale gas does and maybe an HRC or something to designate high rubber content or not.
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:56 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspGadgt
I agree...this color system we still use is out dated to say the least. I wouldn't mind going to all shore rating like 1/8th scale gas does and maybe an HRC or something to designate high rubber content or not.
i agree
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Old 01-08-2007, 03:42 PM   #574
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Come on tire guys. Let's get together and do this. Let's get some standards. If I knew that a pink from one manufacturer is the same as another then It wouldn't matter to me who's tire I use. Although I know that this could never come to pass because they could never get together. Hmmm. PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE!!!



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Old 01-08-2007, 03:48 PM   #575
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just us one tire i do that way i dont get all messed up oh i us crc on my crc LOL and they seem to work good,black fronts white rears thats it or maybe purple fronts and pink rears.these are the only tires i run now so i dont have to think to much oh and last year on my L4 i was running trc but they are not grp anymore
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:20 PM   #576
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I have a nice Paris Racing and MaxMod durometers. Maybe I can sit down and see if I can start getting some solid numbers and make a chart. I have all [new] Parma tires now and I have some new Jacos that I can test with the same instruments. Don't really feel like buying a bunch of tires to make a complete chart so it may take a while of borrowing pairs from friends until it is done. I have a funny feeling OD may have wide collection of tires

The way durometers work best is to get multiple readings off one tire, then average them. Do this for all tires, then repeat process with other durometer. Then either use the scale that is closest to what most companies state, or maybe average the two sets of data. Just thinking aloud.
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:35 PM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
I have a nice Paris Racing and MaxMod durometers. Maybe I can sit down and see if I can start getting some solid numbers and make a chart. I have all [new] Parma tires now and I have some new Jacos that I can test with the same instruments. Don't really feel like buying a bunch of tires to make a complete chart so it may take a while of borrowing pairs from friends until it is done. I have a funny feeling OD may have wide collection of tires

The way durometers work best is to get multiple readings off one tire, then average them. Do this for all tires, then repeat process with other durometer. Then either use the scale that is closest to what most companies state, or maybe average the two sets of data. Just thinking aloud.
The problem with this is that the finished size of the tires (Parma, Jaco, et al) are really too thin to get an accurate reading with the durometer--you start compressing the foam against the wheel rim and this tends to cause your durometer to read high. Fronts definitely so, rears I would think likely so.

I've got a MaxMod durometer myself that I've had since forever. If you can get donuts it would work pretty well. Back then I mounted all my own tires and donuts were easy to get. Now, not so easy and they cost pretty much the same as finished tire/wheel packages.

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Old 01-08-2007, 07:46 PM   #578
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Jack H how's it going? Traction Problems?? I don't think you will find the right tire we tried everything, I even tried Yellow wraps, and still pulled up the fuzz on your rug... The simple fact is the carpet is wore out it was wore out years ago when we ran on it at a different track, so I don't think you will find a tire that gives you what you need. To hard woks grat no fuzz but can't make 8min to soft pulls fuzz up and destroys bearings... Ypu guys come up with a carpet solution, me and Tom will be back even our old rug on the oval side is better then that stuff on the road side, ... here is a idea setup a road track on the oval side try it and see what soft tires do ...
LMK
what you find out

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Old 01-08-2007, 08:11 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
I have a nice Paris Racing and MaxMod durometers. Maybe I can sit down and see if I can start getting some solid numbers and make a chart. I have all [new] Parma tires now and I have some new Jacos that I can test with the same instruments. Don't really feel like buying a bunch of tires to make a complete chart so it may take a while of borrowing pairs from friends until it is done. I have a funny feeling OD may have wide collection of tires

The way durometers work best is to get multiple readings off one tire, then average them. Do this for all tires, then repeat process with other durometer. Then either use the scale that is closest to what most companies state, or maybe average the two sets of data. Just thinking aloud.
I used to have a more extensive inventory but since I heve gone back to Parma rubber I haven't felt the need to experiment. Between my team mates and myself we probably have almost everything so let me know what you want to test.
That being said, I think focusing your attention on durometer readings is a mistake. Durometer readings do not necessarily reflect the level of grip of a tire because of the different rubber families we are dealing with. You just need to learn what the different compounds from different manufacturers do on the track. If this sounds like a lot of work, you are right, but who's afraid of that?
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Old 01-08-2007, 10:31 PM   #580
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Default Basic Setup and TFource vs GenX

First run with the GenX this weekend.

I had built a T-Fource and I have been running this waiting for the GenX to arrive. Having never run T Bar I was interested to sumise the difference between CRC Link and T bar cars. I ran the TFource "ala associated", using associated T bars, front tweak screws and no side spings.

I found the Tfource car instantly likeable and driveable. It felt safe and predictable. Fine. I then proceeded to have two of the most average national meetings I have driven in the UK. The results suggest I am slower with this car.

So first run with the GenX at a regional meeting. Good carpet, same spec as our nationals are run on. I ended up on the pace. Ok, I got beat by a regular UK A finalist and an ex IC 1/8 world champion but I can live with that!

Setup lessons:
0.45 springs: Er no. The car transfers too much weight as I back off and I end up with unpredictable oversteer as I lift. We were running 19Turn. The natural breaking of the motor may be an issue and the car might not do this with a mod or brushless in it. I found 0.50 springs better on the day.

Front Spring setup.... Just (spend some time here, its a feel thing) take the slack out of the king pin and then push a single 0.10mm shim of preload in (this is a tiny tiny preload). I was running CRC super heavy lube (blue) on the pins.

Two washers back, one forward on the castor with 5 degree blocks. I did not change this. I will try 10degree but I wanted a safer car on day 1.

30 Weight oil and blue spring. I wanted to run harder (red or copper) but the track was a little bumpy. Watch out for the dura shock. Its great but I have found that as you tighten the cap, it can overcompress the O ring and the damping you get becomes a function of the cap tightness, not the oil! Back off your cap 1/8th to 1/4 of a turn and see if you are getting this issue.

No rear pod droop to 1mm... there or there abouts. White side springs.

Side damping... hmmm the new GenX dampers have more clearence. You want to try the super heavy lube first (blue cap)... did that but maybe too heavy. I ended up on white cap. Now I think this is too light!!!More work is needed here.

Tyres.. its always tyres! Well. CRC Magenta fronts (hi roller) and grey rears.

My rear brace thing (read above). Well! In the last run (final) I took it off and the car felt better! (opps) Sorry Jackh. I was changing other stuff so this may be wrong. I will take the opposite approach and get the car working without it.. then I will add the brace and report back.

Cheers

Mark (currently a little insomniac)
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:26 AM   #581
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hey mark,
i found a little trick to building the cap style shock.what i do is fill the body with oil having just the foam,cup and O-ring on the shock shaft,i then insert the shaft into the shock body and push the piston all the way into the shock body.following this i take a 1/16th allen wrench and push the O-ring into its position.this will put the shock inerds into the position they should be in and push out excess oil.then i take a paper towel and remove the excess oil from on top of the O-ring.i make sure to get it all because this oil is what causes the problem.once the oil is gone,install the cap while holding the piston down in the body.once the cap is tightened it should be perfect. pull the shaft back out and clamp the shock bottom collar back on.hope this helps.
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:17 AM   #582
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Hey--if anyone has their Gen-X handy maybe you can do me a favor...

Measure how long the dampener tube assembly is from ball-end stud to ball-end stud as-installed? As close as is reasonable--I don't need to know to the thousandth of an inch or anything. I'd REALLY appreciate it as I'm trying to see if I can fit Torpedo Tubes to my MX2.

Thanks,

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Old 01-09-2007, 11:41 AM   #583
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58.6mm (2.31")
Why would they be any different than the original dampener tubes?
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:47 AM   #584
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According to John at CRC they're shorter, which makes sense as the entire chassis is narrower, and the outer tube pivot is at the extreme outside of the chassis. I didn't think to ask how much at the time. They are not a direct fit onto the CK's. You could get 'em on there using the extra holes in the tweak bridge for the outer mounts but then you couldn't get at the tweak screws.

Thanks,

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Old 01-09-2007, 11:51 AM   #585
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Yup--just measured the tubes on one of my 3.2R's...approx. 2.85", so the new tubes are something over a half inch shorter.

Thanks James!

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