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Old 11-05-2006, 12:44 AM   #61
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I can't image that the minimum weight is set to 1350 gr. Because that figure belongs to the 4-cell proposal. So my guess would be: 1425 gr.
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Old 11-05-2006, 03:17 AM   #62
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In no particular order...

Off-Road WC Neil Cragg ran 5-cell because of lack of grip using 6-cell, nothing to do with the discussion about TC racing.

The proposal for the EFRA meeting was for 4-cell. However, the rules of the meeting allow discussion and amendments to proposals. If this outcome is true, it will be because there was an amendment following the discussion, and that amendment was passed.

It isn't the end for LiPo. A 5v cell is under development, and that will suit 12th well. If it proves to be a way forward for reducing cell costs, it will get into RTRs. In which case, it might be that the TC world goes 5v anyway. For now, it has scuppered the only market for LiPo in electrics - Off-Road don't need it (limit of grip) and 12th can't use it (3.7v v 4.8v).

As for the weight limit, this isn't the first time EFRA and IFMAR have cocked it up. IFMAR 12th limit is still 860g, when everyone else runs 798/800g. EFRA limit was also well above 800g for ages, until it was changed. I appreciate you are all concerned about costs, but how much is a chassis that gets a 5-cell car down to 1350g going to cost?!!

Yes, you can still run 6-cell stock classes, but are they going to be any cheaper. A car opitmised for 5-cell is a compromise for 6-cell, and if IFMAR adopt 5-cell then cars will get designed with that in mind. Will they be more fragile at that weight limit - something has to give. As Keith Bontrager's (MTB pioneer) motto goes - Strong, Light, Cheap; pick two!!

Still, at least this decision will increase the traffic on all RC forums across the World, so someone benefits!!
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Old 11-05-2006, 04:14 AM   #63
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Nothing we have to worry about here in Europe, we got the right Class for everyone:

6-cells? Offroad is the way to go
5-cells? TC of course
4-cells? go with 1/12

in my opinion its extreme BS, im just selling all my tc and electric stuff execpt my 1/12 for the winter season and club races.
what i`ve heard so far that many people will stop racing tc by now, lets see.
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Old 11-05-2006, 04:17 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoman
I hope they just changed to 5 cell in the mod class... they are the only ones bitching so let them run 5, 4, 3 or 2 cells... whatever they want
90% of on road (USA) is stock or 19turn and I dont hear anyone complaining in those classes.
Same everywhere around the world, mod is dying because the equipment is unreliable due to the power output of the current generation of cells. Before you say its due to old motor technology, people are blowing up / thermalling brushless on an all too regular basis. The number of cells for mod TC has to change...

Stock / 19T shouldn't change, they should stay 6 cell, they would be too slow with 4 /5 cells in my opinion. They ain't broke so don't need fixing as the saying goes...

EFRA is only interested in mod as is IFMAR.

For IFMAR to change, EFRA, ROAR, FEMCA (Asia / Pacific) and FAMAR (South America and any other countries not in the other 3 blocs) will have to agree or reach majority. My guess is that ROAR and FEMCA will go 4 cell, which will leave EFRA different. Not sure which way FAMAR will go. It won't get decided by IFMAR until next year's meeting at the Offroad World's.

Where all this falls down is that there is no limitations on the chassis, eg chassis should still have positions for 6 cells. Otherwise you will have to run 2 different chassis if you swap between stock / 19T / mod. Would save on chassis development costs which pass back to the racers as more expensive cars...
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Old 11-05-2006, 02:10 PM   #65
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Well the battery matchers will love this, it will place a premium (meaning higher $'s) on high voltage cells which also means the average driver is back to not being able to get the good stuff like the factory guys. It may not be as bad in mod but it will hurt the stock and 19t guys a bunch.
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Old 11-05-2006, 02:52 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
It is a shame they decided 5 instead of 4. Even though I am strongly against a change from 6, at least 4 would have meant that all on-road racing would us the same cell count. Now you have 4, 5,and 6 cell classes. This is supposed to be good for racing?

It's a pity that it is drivers' lack of self control and/or poor decision making that prompted this decision.
Oscar was defending 6 cell, but prefered 5 to 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joep
I can't image that the minimum weight is set to 1350 gr. Because that figure belongs to the 4-cell proposal. So my guess would be: 1425 gr.
Hmmm....
1350 gr was the decision, but also 1500 was also discussed. I have a feeling someone got lost on weight somewhere as the discussion regarding how many cells there should be was a long, long discussion and we ended up with weight for 4 cells but with 5 of them finally in the car....In touring that is.
This does not incude OffRoad. they still need 6 cells when there is muddy conditions... 5 was used on a very slippery track. Once.

Reciever batteries are not legal either.

Iīm not 100% sure, but I beleve the decision regarding sintered magnets for brushless will not be legal until November 2007, as there is a rule somewhere saying that if a technical rule affects all classes, it takes a year before it is up and running.

The GBS ( Global Body Spec ) was approved. All was for! Meaning the manufacturers need to follow this mesurements in order to have new bodies approved.

Last edited by Anders Myrberg; 11-05-2006 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 11-05-2006, 02:57 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vr01
Stock / 19T shouldn't change, they should stay 6 cell, they would be too slow with 4 /5 cells in my opinion. They ain't broke so don't need fixing as the saying goes...
This I donīt realy understand. What is the reason for racing 19t in the first place?
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Old 11-05-2006, 05:41 PM   #68
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4 cells or 5 cells? reminds to the past where we run 6cell in modified in Europe while in the States were running 7cells in modified. After a couple of years it went all 6cell. Will Japan change their rule to 5cell or do the EFRA change their rule to 4 cell?
With the development of newer cells each year the motorwindings will reach someday the 1turn mark, how many voltage will then be allowed to drive? The development of brushless and lipo's are going fast. This will bring us higher speeds and longer runtimes but costs also. Lets keep it affordable for everyone and have fun!
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Old 11-05-2006, 08:44 PM   #69
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Its interesting to see where will TC racing end up....
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Old 11-05-2006, 09:04 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
This I donīt realy understand. What is the reason for racing 19t in the first place?
Because the jump from stock to full mod is just too much for most of us mortals. Stock is a pull the trigger and try to keep it pinned style of racing, mod is all about throtle control with moments of full pull. It's just to big of a jump and 19t is a good compromise from my perspective. I look at it as sportsman mod to keep folks out of the way of the expert mod drivers. I tried to go from stock to mod and could not do it, 19t was a good way for me to finally make the transition to full mod this summer.
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Old 11-05-2006, 10:32 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacingStorm
Because the jump from stock to full mod is just too much for most of us mortals. Stock is a pull the trigger and try to keep it pinned style of racing, mod is all about throtle control with moments of full pull. It's just to big of a jump and 19t is a good compromise from my perspective. I look at it as sportsman mod to keep folks out of the way of the expert mod drivers. I tried to go from stock to mod and could not do it, 19t was a good way for me to finally make the transition to full mod this summer.

In my country where stock suddenly just went off with only a few occasional stock races.Most of us have made a jump from stock to mod just like that.It just take a little getting use to.A day or 2 at the track should be able to get to grips with mod. Just get a mod and try it out.
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Old 11-06-2006, 12:56 AM   #72
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It`s really to bad we`re going 5 cell BUT, !! sintered and delta windings hoeray !!! but what about rotor diameter ?? is it supposed to be not bigger as 180 style rotor ????? I hope the only motor limit will be set on outside size`ss thenb they may go too 2 times tree cell racing ??? the`n we could have true mod racing with 2 x 4200 ib`s is 8400 mah ni-mh racing
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Old 11-06-2006, 01:01 AM   #73
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Hi Guys...

May you guys give me a lesson on whats Delta winding & the benefits?

Thanks.....
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Old 11-06-2006, 01:28 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben.C
Hi Guys...

May you guys give me a lesson on whats Delta winding & the benefits?

Thanks.....
It is a way of terminating the windings inside a brushless motor.

Read bottom of page 7 here:
http://www.gobrushless.com/GBL_single_v2.pdf
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Old 11-06-2006, 01:54 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkerrnz
It is a way of terminating the windings inside a brushless motor.

Read bottom of page 7 here:
http://www.gobrushless.com/GBL_single_v2.pdf
Thanks....

Delta = Higher RPM, lower torque
Wye = Lower RPM, Higher Torque
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