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Old 11-30-2006, 02:39 PM   #391
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Today we did some test runs under wet conditions. It did not rain but the track was partial humid. The photo shows my car after a run:



The track is Asphalt and is 265 meters long. And we used rubber CS27 tires.



We ran:
6 cell IB4200 & 5 cell IB4200
with the following motors:
Team Orion 19T element
Team Orion 12T MR with a DC Motorsport Armature timed on 30 degrees (as usual here in Holland)

We both ran a Xray T2('007) and used a 2 teeth bigger pinion when driving with a 5 cell pack.

We were both impressed by the laptimes with 5 cells compared to the ones with 6 cells. The topspeed on the straight was lower and punch exiting the corner was less with both motors, but my best laptime (I was driving 12T) was set with the 5 cell configuration!

The gain in running with 5 cell is more cornerspeed an by that a big compensation for the lower topspeed and less punch.

Both we did not get to the weight (1350 gr.) we both were above 1400 gr. So there is more to gain....

So to all gus saying it's not a good route to take:

It is.

It will wreck less motors and electronics and the laptimes will improve with further evolved batteries and motors.
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:58 PM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
..and there are always they, who want to adjust there limiter or MLBBīs so they can have a advantage...
5-cell, or even 4-cell is easier to check.
Anders, any limiter would have to be sealed and tamperproof, plus it could be supplied by the officials and returned after the meeting. If it was found that someone had cheated they would be DQ'd, simple. It would be easy to check at technical inspection, each one could have its own security ID to be sure it's legal. Limiters are used in full size racing, it could be good to race where equipment is 100% equal and it's down to the drivers skill only!

TRF415boy I'm not dreaming! It was SBH that said "Tests will be made during the in/outdoor season to see if this could be the golden solution." he said at the AGM they were told about limiters used in aircraft so they are certainly real, I know what should be possible. What would be interesting to find out is what a limiter is like in a car and how well it works. The important thing I guess really is to try and stop the problems people are having. Here in the UK it's the same situation, we'll have to see what happens next year.

As SBH said it looks like tests will be made to see what is possible. Until 5 cells are tried in competition next year nobody knows what 5 cells are like to race with, it probably really is good and fast like Oscar says. With a limiter it might also be good, and as fast as you want it to be, or slower if you want slower by use of a different limiter setting.
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:04 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joep
So to all gus saying it's not a good route to take:

It is.

It will wreck less motors and electronics and the laptimes will improve with further evolved batteries and motors.
Joep, it looks like you did some good testing! It seems it's not slower, it could be faster than 6 cells!

BTW nice track!!
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:18 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Anders, any limiter would have to be sealed and tamperproof, plus it could be supplied by the officials and returned after the meeting. If it was found that someone had cheated they would be DQ'd, simple. It would be easy to check at technical inspection, each one could have its own security ID to be sure it's legal. Limiters are used in full size racing, it could be good to race where equipment is 100% equal and it's down to the drivers skill only!

TRF415boy I'm not dreaming! It was SBH that said "Tests will be made during the in/outdoor season to see if this could be the golden solution." he said at the AGM they were told about limiters used in aircraft so they are certainly real, I know what should be possible. What would be interesting to find out is what a limiter is like in a car and how well it works. The important thing I guess really is to try and stop the problems people are having. Here in the UK it's the same situation, we'll have to see what happens next year.

As SBH said it looks like tests will be made to see what is possible. Until 5 cells are tried in competition next year nobody knows what 5 cells are like to race with, it probably really is good and fast like Oscar says. With a limiter it might also be good, and as fast as you want it to be, or slower if you want slower by use of a different limiter setting.

Terry, a limiter won't solve the problems with 6 cells. I used the limiter of my speedo and my motors still blew up. Besides we don't want to go slower, we want to keep the stuff running. The solution for brushed motors is to use better magnets like the ones that are used in brushless. Then no need for silly wind motors so the motors won't revv as much, problem solved.
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:23 PM   #395
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TRF415boy, believe me a limiter would slow the cars down and "keep the stuff running".
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:27 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
TRF415boy, believe me a limiter would slow the cars down and "keep the stuff running".
Why adding new stuff if dropping a cell solves it for next year. And BTW is already decided for
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:32 PM   #397
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Got it!!!!
got a idea !!sorted
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:32 PM   #398
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This Saturday, weather permitted, I'll also test 5cell with 9t and 12t and let you know my findings

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Old 11-30-2006, 03:34 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Joep, it looks like you did some good testing! It seems it's not slower, it could be faster than 6 cells!

BTW nice track!!
Double thnx
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:39 PM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
TRF415boy, believe me a limiter would slow the cars down and "keep the stuff running".
Yeah right and who would manufacture that lovely piece of electronics

No offence BUT IMHO you have an interest in convincing people a limiter is the solution. I have the electronics background necessary to understand the problem we are facing, and I don't think it is.
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:51 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Yeah right and who would manufacture that lovely piece of electronics

No offence BUT IMHO you have an interest in convincing people a limiter is the solution. I think it is not and I have the electronics background necessary to understand the problem we are facing.
Steady fab , don`t go hitting on Terry

no good comparing experience in same back grounds when you have different outlook on life

i have no experience what so ever in electromagnetic field generators

except i know this 5 cell could work if only clubs,Governing Bodys,racers,companys got there heads out of there arse`s & get it going by helping `EACH OTHER` instead of making rules just for the TOP tier racers & series IE;;nats,euro`s,worlds
coz while you lot up there on cloud 5 us mear mortals down there on planet earth are wondering which way to go
none of these have taken into account `CLUBS` this is where the future champions are made ,unless your not bothered & you will go the real racing world has gone ,it be a Elite hobby where money gets you races ,coz the way it`s going less & less beggineers are coming in/or staying in

PS;;this won`t help mod class to survive
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Old 11-30-2006, 04:41 PM   #402
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TRF415boy I have no interest in convincing anyone about anything. I do have an interest in trying to encourage more people to race, have fun and enjoy what rc racing has to offer.
My motivation is to solve problems, a limiter may or may not solve the problems. I was just curious that Søren (*SBH*) mentioned that limiters were discussed at the EFRA AGM and that somebody intends to test them. Who makes them and how they work etc is irrelevant IMHO. To me what is interesting is that ALL possible reasonable/workable options are considered. It's already been pointed out that the racers probably wouldn't accept them, that's fair enough. If I decided to make a limiter and try it out it might be a good thing and work well, I really wouldn't know until I tried. Equal racing to me personally is an attractive idea, if it also meant it was more fun and the equipment was more reliable I'd be very keen on it!

Like Mr Jolly says we want the Mod class to survive AND more people to race in TC. Clubs need new members to survive, my club is struggling right now

If anyone can do anything to help the situation it has to be a good thing.
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:16 AM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Anders, any limiter would have to be sealed and tamperproof, plus it could be supplied by the officials and returned after the meeting. If it was found that someone had cheated they would be DQ'd, simple. It would be easy to check at technical inspection, each one could have its own security ID to be sure it's legal. Limiters are used in full size racing, it could be good to race where equipment is 100% equal and it's down to the drivers skill only!
Well, this pretty much sum up the problems.
As president of one of the biggest clubs in Sweden, I would not at all be happy to buy in more stuff on behalf of the club, for the racers. Any part in the car need to be the drivers property. As a matter of fact, we have decided to not lend out "personal transponders" anymore, as this just gives us a higher cost. Drivers seems to treat ours much more brutal than there owns, and in shitty weatherconditions, they seems to forgot to bring there own stuff, and need to borrow from the club. These days are over now, and anyone who can buy a pack of battery, a 5 litre fuel can, can buy one of there own. Otherwise, they will be able to rent it, but it will cost 1/5 of the cost for the transponder, so we can afford to buy new ones when these are broken.
To add more work for our scruteneering is not at all a sulotion either. We have already to much to check ( and a hard time finding people with the right competence ), and we donīt have the luxury to bring over Reto Koenig or Oscar Jansen to check it.
I noticed that some of the proposals here on internet requires gadgets that are not even invented yet. People who donīt produce them say that "they are easy to make". Well. Make one then. The one who perhaps can, does not seems to agree that itīs easy, or even the right way.
Perhaps we should listen to them as they usally knows more ( Yes, they do! )? What we need to understand, is that these companys want this sport to be simple and easy & cheep, so it can attract more people ( customers ).
We must have simple sulotions. Please have in mind that this is not full size racing.
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:33 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Equal racing to me personally is an attractive idea, if it also meant it was more fun and the equipment was more reliable I'd be very keen on it!
Thatīs a nice thought. But mecanical engines, or electronics will unfortunally never been equal, due to tolerances.
Meaning companies or people with loads of bucks will always be able to check more engines, motors, speedos or whatever to find the one that are faster. Pretty tough to catch up to these.
No, we have to accept that this is partly a material sport. Thatīs part of the game. Just like full size racing.
There is only one sport in the world that are equal on equippment, and thatīs paper ariplanes. And thatīs boring when itīs windy....

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Old 12-01-2006, 02:56 AM   #405
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>Joep

Very interesting and nice to hear
Could You tell the difference in lap times and also the overall 5 min time
It could be interesting to know, but anyway it will be equal for all, and not
as slow as many people think

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