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Old 11-27-2006, 06:41 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
I realy don´t think this is the future, as then everybody need to buy this gadget also...
Anders, only those with the problems (Mod?) would need them, they don't have to buy them they could be supplied to the drivers a bit like transponders. The 5-cell option is simple, but as SBH says it's only a short term solution. Whatever happens a good long-term solution is needed we all agree on that. Limiters could be a possible solution worth thinking about.
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Old 11-27-2006, 12:01 PM   #377
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Who did say the 5-cell rule is only for shortterm and that we need something different (magic limiter black box, MLBB...) for the longrun? Should we not just give 5-cells a chance first before we look at the next thing?

As good as of an idea such a "MLBB" is, I do not think it will work well or will be accepted well in reality! Some reasons why I think they'll fail (my humble opinion):

1) What does the MLBB exactly limit (current? voltage? rpm?)? Also what do we do if the limit is reached? Cut away throttle signals by having this limiter connected between RX and ESC? If that's the plan, how does the MLBB know where is neutral and where full throttle? Or evaporate the "overload" into temperature?

2) There will be the problem who's going to check all these MLBB's for tolerances before, at and after races. What do you think a driver is going to blame first if he's lacking punch or topspeed. Bingo, the MLBB...

3)If such a MLBB would be possible to make, it would be very expensive to manufacture since tolerances have to be VERY tight (we'd had to be talking 0.1%), it has rough environment to work at (temps, humidity, currents) and should stay consistent over a long period of usage.


I just can't see this MLBB become reality. Yes, it may be possible to make some sort of (too simple!) limiter but it will most likely not be good enough to work in the real racing world and will hardly be accepted by the racers due to the above reasons.
Additonally, is 100% equal speed really what people want in TC modifed?
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Old 11-28-2006, 02:26 PM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
I will be doing just that on Monday.
I hope you do want to share the info you're given
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Old 11-28-2006, 05:04 PM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonman
Like a rev limiter in fullscale race engines.
Moonman sounds like a rev limiter could be the best solution if it's motors that are blowing due to the revs being too high. If it's not due to revs but power then a power limiter could be best. If it's the car speeds that are too fast then an acceleration limiter could be a good idea. There are technical possibilities and options not explored or discussed, they could be the golden solution that SBH mentions and we are all hoping for, but then again 5 cells might solve the problems or many of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *SBH*
Tests will be made during the in/outdoor season to see if this could be the golden solution.
Søren, I agree testing is the best way to see what the golden solution might turn out to be. No testing will not find any solution.. we all need and want a good solution.

Without going into the technical details, it.. a "limiter" IMHO not a "MLBB" (as there's no magic just simple electronics!) would not need to be expensive. When the limit is reached the limiter would "limit" that's what a limiter does, it's all a limiter does!

A limiter would not be impossible to make any technical problems encountered could be overcome. The biggest problem is probably us the racers, as burito says, would it work well and be accepted in reality? Is 100% equal speed what people want in TC modified?? It may be the reason why limiters never happen.. but trying them out could certainly be interesting!
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Old 11-28-2006, 05:33 PM   #380
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Any kind of limiter is going to be about the size of a speed control, maybe bigger.
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Old 11-28-2006, 05:40 PM   #381
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Bob I don't think so, most likely smaller or about the same size, until there's one made and being tested then nobody knows. If they're not made or tested there's still those 3 'simple' options available to us.. 4 cell, 5 cell or 6 cell!!
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:50 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Any kind of limiter is going to be about the size of a speed control, maybe bigger.
..and there are always they, who want to adjust there limiter or MLBB´s so they can have a advantage...
5-cell, or even 4-cell is easier to check.
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:36 AM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_S
Moonman sounds like a rev limiter could be the best solution if it's motors that are blowing due to the revs being too high. If it's not due to revs but power then a power limiter could be best. If it's the car speeds that are too fast then an acceleration limiter could be a good idea. There are technical possibilities and options not explored or discussed, they could be the golden solution that SBH mentions and we are all hoping for, but then again 5 cells might solve the problems or many of them.



Søren, I agree testing is the best way to see what the golden solution might turn out to be. No testing will not find any solution.. we all need and want a good solution.

Without going into the technical details, it.. a "limiter" IMHO not a "MLBB" (as there's no magic just simple electronics!) would not need to be expensive. When the limit is reached the limiter would "limit" that's what a limiter does, it's all a limiter does!

A limiter would not be impossible to make any technical problems encountered could be overcome. The biggest problem is probably us the racers, as burito says, would it work well and be accepted in reality? Is 100% equal speed what people want in TC modified?? It may be the reason why limiters never happen.. but trying them out could certainly be interesting!

I think you're dreaming. There's no way of making a rev limiter on a brushed motor. And if you go from an 8T to a 7T how does the limiter know you've changed to a more revvy motor ? Even between same turn motors, there are too many parameters that influence the motor's characteristics, it's just not doable. A limiter isn't the answer, it's either less cells/less weight or better motors, which will require a change of rules.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:17 AM   #384
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Gentleman, why not just go to the track, remove a cell, remove the weight and drive and enjoy our hobby... You will be really surprised how good and fast is 5 cell.

I think we do not need any changes more, they are voted for in a democratic way, made and done...
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Old 11-29-2006, 07:19 AM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Jansen
Gentleman, why not just go to the track, remove a cell, remove the weight and drive and enjoy our hobby... You will be really surprised how good and fast is 5 cell.

I think we do not need any changes more, they are voted for in a democratic way, made and done...
Dear Oscar, just for the sake of getting things "out of the air" I'll do that exactly tomorrow. Ok, it is a little cold out there but tomorrow we will test on the AMCA track (outdoor, Apeldoorn, The Netherlands) with Xray T2's and T2'007's the following motors: 7T; 12T & 19T with 5 and 6 cells IB4200. We won't be able to match the lap times to normal racing in the summer because of the temperature, but we will be able to compare the difference between 5 cells compared to 6. This test will also be used for the discussions for the NOMAC stock championship. I'll post friday our findings here.
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Old 11-29-2006, 08:56 AM   #386
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@burito/Reto:
How will this rulechange affect your products, especially the new Sphere Competition TC Spec brushless speedcontrol and Vector X 11 4.5 brushless motor? Will they have a cell limit of 4 - 5 cell, or will they still be (like stated in my info material) 4 - 6 cell?
Thanks!
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:09 AM   #387
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@Drifter: this is not going to affect our products in the short-term since there will still be countries & federations where 6 cells will be used. Therefore all our speedos will definitely be rated 4-6 cells for 2007.
There is no special 4 or 5 cell speedo in the pipeline, if that was your question...
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:02 PM   #388
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I've tested 5 cells for some time now and can say it's a succes. My motor used to be 90 celcius with 6 cells, now it's around 70 (GM brushless). The fan that used to hover above the motor is gone now...

Also tried 5 cell mod vs. 6 cell 19 turns. And 5 cell mod is still substantially faster than 6 cell 19 turn. Whoever wrote the opposite in the past has clearly not tried it.

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Old 11-29-2006, 02:13 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burito
@Drifter: this is not going to affect our products in the short-term since there will still be countries & federations where 6 cells will be used. Therefore all our speedos will definitely be rated 4-6 cells for 2007.
There is no special 4 or 5 cell speedo in the pipeline, if that was your question...
Thanks for the information !
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Old 11-29-2006, 07:14 PM   #390
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@burito/Reto
@Oscar Jansen

I would like to know, what's your's opinions about the diferences beteween 5 cell (1350g) racing and 6 cell (1500g) racing, concerning ratio and motor's choice.
I'm from Portugal, and for 2007 the pilots can chose one or another(5cell, 6cell)...There's no motor limit...
In your opinion, what's the best choice?
And, brushed or brushless???

Thank's in advance
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