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Old 11-21-2006, 12:12 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
4200 on the label that is....
Inside, they are closer to 4900 already....
Thatīs, our problem.
I'm too afraid of overcharging them and cut mine off at about 4500... I didn't know they could go up to 4900...!!
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Old 11-21-2006, 02:13 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
4200 on the label that is....
Inside, they are closer to 4900 already....
Thatīs, our problem.
That's not a problem, that's awesome. Motor and esc technology need to catch up, that's the problem.

For 99% of the RC enthusiasts that race, you can no longer gripe about not making time, OR, "...if only I had THAT guys batterys..."

If you see somebody dump now, you don't hear his buddies saying, "Dude, you need to get some new packs..." what you hear is, "..Dude, what did you do wrong?"

I think it's fair to say that batterys are finally not the problem AT ALL! AND, because batterys are not manufactured specifically for us, that great technology will continue to march forward and get better and better. MORE POWER, LONGER RUN TIMES!!! The batterys are finally not the problem. When was the last time you watched a 1/12 scale race and saw somebody slightly faster than everybody else, and at the 6 minute mark of an 8 minute race commented, "...there's no way he's making time...". OR, when was the lat time you watched the last minute of an 8 minute 1/12 scale race where every car on the track was dumping and 4-6 seconds slower per lap than what they started out running (and 6 of the 10 don't even make the line to finish the race). OR watched a race where more than one car, LONG BEFORE TIME RAN OUT, simply ran out of battery and dumped so bad, that it just quit moving on the track?

I don't miss any of that, not one little bit.
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Old 11-21-2006, 04:47 PM   #258
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Well, it is our problem.
Simply because drivers blow up there equippment that cost a lot, and they need fans, cooling stuff and more expensive parts to get it work. Dump cost nothing, and the same argumet most seems to have, that "the drivers should adopt there set-up or driving to there equippment" can be used back. You can still drive fast even with 4-cells. You just need to adjust and set-up the car accordingly to it...And itīs alot cheeper!
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:00 PM   #259
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If brushed motors blow up, use brushless motors....

If batteries blow up, use batteries that don't.....

If the car is too fast for you, use less throttle.....

If the tires wear out too fast, use harder tires.....
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:20 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
...And itīs alot cheeper!
Sorry Anders. I did this when Oval went to 4 cell. It is not "cheaper". It was more expensive. New cars, new motors, new electronics were required immediately to compete. It was quite a few dollars.

Should sedan take the same approach it would be the same....and for what? Very few have severe problems with motor blow ups and thermals. You average Joe just doesn't seem to have these problems at the local track and average Joe outnumbers the guys at the Worlds or JMRCA(sp).... Why should we develop new rules for those that get their stuff for free??? Let's be responsible and not require even more specialized equipment to race.
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:26 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
If brushed motors blow up, use brushless motors....

If batteries blow up, use batteries that don't.....

If the car is too fast for you, use less throttle.....

If the tires wear out too fast, use harder tires.....
Very nice but what do you do when

Brushed and brushless motors blow up ?

If you use the batteries that don't blow up you're 20 places down ?

You can't use harder tyres because they're not on the list you HAVE to use ?

See these are the problems european racers have had to cope with, and right now 5-cell is the easiest way to fix it, at least temporarily.
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:59 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
Why should we develop new rules for those that get their stuff for free??? Let's be responsible and not require even more specialized equipment to race.

Exactly.....why do the few that get everything for free dictate a sport wide change???

If I was a pro driver I would be more upset with the motor manufacturers and the ESC manufacturers then anything else....they are what is really lacking here. Every ESC manufacturer out there looks like they slacked off on Brushed ESC's for the last 2 or so years....whose fault is this why don’t they just make a better product same thing for the motor manufacturers? If I was a car manufacturer I would be even more upset as all the design work for the past 5 to 10 years is now thrown out the window because of some other manufacturers lack of ability to but forth a product that works under heavy racing activity.


It’s not going to be cheaper....just wait until every car manufacturer out there starts to sell cars designed just for 4 cells with extremely light weight parts on the drive train that will only last a few runs. The cost or racing will grow even more so when companies start to do things like this. And if anyone says they won’t then they are full of bull.....it will happen and will just piss off even more racers. Throw in batteries that are good for only one run now because they are pushed to the limits and cant handle the load.


5 cells seems like a better idea then 4 cell IMHO.
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:54 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
Well, it is our problem.
Simply because drivers blow up there equippment that cost a lot, and they need fans, cooling stuff and more expensive parts to get it work. Dump cost nothing, and the same argumet most seems to have, that "the drivers should adopt there set-up or driving to there equippment" can be used back. You can still drive fast even with 4-cells. You just need to adjust and set-up the car accordingly to it...And itīs alot cheeper!
Define for me "blow up there equippment". That would imply complete and utter failure, and the part is no longer useful and should be disposed of. You are completely out of money and options.

I can't help but feel that the amount of drivers that "blow up their equipment", is not very high. Thermaling an esc or a motor just shuts it off for a period. You get to use it again later. And perhaps that company needs to re-design the failing item.

Why fix the item that isn't failing????? Battery works, motor and esc's blow up... (according to your statement) Let's fix the battery.... Yea, that will solve the problem with the motor and esc. But let's not fix the motor or ESC, it must be fine...

The 5 cell rule is mis-directed. It's "some" of the motors and esc's that need addressed. Heat and inefficiency made the esc shut down... AWESOME, it would seem the battery works just fine. Time to fix the motor and esc in question. OR, simply try a different one. Interestingly enough, now your batteries are fine. No motor or ESC problems.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:05 PM   #264
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Anders,

I'm not picking on you. I'm just responding to your post.
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:40 PM   #265
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It has been addressed before. Problem is that escs and motors development needs more time compared to the batteries!!
ie Orion V2 Oscar Jansen edition has just released to the public while orion has it since February!! On the other hand you see new/improved batteries every 3 months

This is the problem, not lack of desire from manufacturers to build better products.

We hope that 5cell rule is a good compromise

Nick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
Define for me "blow up there equippment". That would imply complete and utter failure, and the part is no longer useful and should be disposed of. You are completely out of money and options.

I can't help but feel that the amount of drivers that "blow up their equipment", is not very high. Thermaling an esc or a motor just shuts it off for a period. You get to use it again later. And perhaps that company needs to re-design the failing item.

Why fix the item that isn't failing????? Battery works, motor and esc's blow up... (according to your statement) Let's fix the battery.... Yea, that will solve the problem with the motor and esc. But let's not fix the motor or ESC, it must be fine...

The 5 cell rule is mis-directed. It's "some" of the motors and esc's that need addressed. Heat and inefficiency made the esc shut down... AWESOME, it would seem the battery works just fine. Time to fix the motor and esc in question. OR, simply try a different one. Interestingly enough, now your batteries are fine. No motor or ESC problems.
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:13 PM   #266
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When are all these ESC and motors blowing up? I didnt see any at the IIC or the the Classic (last 2 big races I attended) nor the Novak last year...
The biggest problem seems to be asphalt racing in the summer.. with the high ambient temps seeming to be the biggest contributing factor.
If they go 4 cell we might as well go all the way and just run 12th scale as thats a class that is perfect for 4 cells
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:32 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnick
It has been addressed before. Problem is that escs and motors development needs more time compared to the batteries!!
ie Orion V2 Oscar Jansen edition has just released to the public while orion has it since February!! On the other hand you see new/improved batteries every 3 months

This is the problem, not lack of desire from manufacturers to build better products.

We hope that 5cell rule is a good compromise

Nick
Don't you feel that it's possible that what is being limited is the only piece of the equation that is NOT "broken"? The battery works, every time. Why fix the battery???

Also, it's no surprise that new batteries are always coming, as are new chassis's, radios, receivers, etc. So perhaps a little planning ahead is in order by the motor and esc people. If that is the intention. They are in the business to make a profit. If they intend to succeed, they need to make a better mousetrap. And ALL of them are working on new stuff.

Also, it's been what 15-20 years since we raced with 1700's? How is it that all of a sudden, 20 years later, after all the upgrading that has been to esc's and motors, that now, all of a sudden, they can't take it and we should limit the batteries instead. Just how close to the edge were they in the first place? We just barely doubled that 1700mah with the 3600's and now are right at 4200-4300. It's not like this snuck up on anybody... It's just recently, over the last few years that most of us, FINALLY, have no problem whatsoever, making time on the track.

I'll even be honest with you. I had a situation myself last summer where I was thermaling an offroad car, and it would shut down and stop on the track. Guess what I did. I pulled the brushless stuff, put the brushed stuff back in, and it worked fine... The problem was not the batteries...
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:49 PM   #268
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I'm with you. If something doesn't work FIX it! But if it takes them 6 months to fix it what can I do? Not racing? No way

Here in Greece we had problems with both brushed and brushless. No way to resolve the problem unless gear down, less timming etc. Then a guy got his hand the OJ endebell and he had no problem at all Fortunatelly, weather got colder and he also had no broblem (brushed). Some guys with BL had some issues but now with the new releases it's ok.

Also, a friend tested 5cell with Orion BL and he said it felt like 6cell 8 turn so it doesn't sound that bad

In addition we get an extra spot to our chassis for tunning

I don;t believe 4 cell will do the trick. 5cell seems better approach.

By the way, the above are for modified. Stock I believe it's ok with 6cell

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:04 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
Sorry Anders. I did this when Oval went to 4 cell. It is not "cheaper". It was more expensive. New cars, new motors, new electronics were required immediately to compete. It was quite a few dollars.

Should sedan take the same approach it would be the same....and for what? Very few have severe problems with motor blow ups and thermals. You average Joe just doesn't seem to have these problems at the local track and average Joe outnumbers the guys at the Worlds or JMRCA(sp).... Why should we develop new rules for those that get their stuff for free??? Let's be responsible and not require even more specialized equipment to race.
It is actually the average Joe, or "Svensson" as we call him, who burn the stuff.
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Old 11-22-2006, 12:25 AM   #270
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I think EFRA desiccion was made to last only one year.

Hopefully Americans stay with 6 cell and we have to follow 2008
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