R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2006, 12:23 PM   #241
Tech Fanatic
 
kentech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 868
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAi
I think most of us know this already...

The point is to have fun and have speed and have power and have fun.

Are the cars really suffering of extra Power?

Brushless motors with sintered rotors stand the "extra" power just fine.
If looking the videos from Yatabe..its not looking fun, its looking slow
There's no need for unlimited power to have fun. To me the fun in our hobby is not dependent much at all of the power and straight-line speed. I would definitely have enjoyed being at Yatabe seeing the dedication of the Japanese races and the perfectly setup and built cars, with 4 cells or 5 or 6... Personally I'd say 5 cells is probably quite good for 2007.
Opinions of these things will always differ though...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CAi
So typical Swedish way to thing about others
And how do you handle that there are people with other views than your own? With your typical comments/posts on here, what do you expect others to think about how you think....??

I'd say one could argue that you actually confirm the correctness of this statement with that post!?

Quote:
People are not as stupid as you think. They are even much more stupid.
__________________
kentech.wordpress.com
kentech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 01:07 PM   #242
CAi
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 56
Default

I think allways hobbyist best.

Personally i like 6 cell. It is clearly coming thru...

With 6 cell everybody had enough power etc.... to compete with the top. It was all in your own hands (setup + driving).

But.. Thanks anyway "Kentech"

Ps. This is racing to find who is fastets. Not who has softest lines and who is saving energy most and not dumping... (just my thoughs).
CAi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 01:47 PM   #243
Tech Master
 
Euge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,429
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
The above google link is the 6 cell 8 minute JMRCA finals from 2005. If you watched the whole video and pay attention to the timer on the lower right corner you would realise it is 8 minutes.

These links are short clips from the 5 min. 4 cell JMRCA finals of 2006

Masami:
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gal...pB/06exp02.wmv

Hara:
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gal...xp/06exp01.wmv

Both occasions aren't fast enough I think..

Next time try to post more accurately.
wow, those cars look slooooow. Their driving is awesome, of course, but the cars look so lazy.
Euge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 06:04 PM   #244
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by *SBH*
Hi Bob

Please be aware of one very important thing in this case.
These rule changes are not made because the cars are going to fast, but only because the sport have problems with motors, and speedos overheating and blowing up. Everyone have to use fans and other cooling acessories to keep the equipment working for only 5 minutes.
This might not be the best or ultimative solution, but it works for now and will probably buy some time, untill we find the golden solution of them all.

Lets all try this and see if its really so bad. - And then think positive towards the future, and try to find the prober solution.


Sincerely

Søren Boy Holst
I don't know that I've ever had a problem with a speed control "thermaling" UNTIL we started fooling around with brushless stuff. Is it possible that what we really need is for the brushless technology to catch up a bit? All the brushed stuff gets better as time goes on, more aluminum, more cooling, longer lasting brushes, etc (racers ask for it and sink or swim, the manufacturers make it happen). People adding fans, looking for an edge, etc. And, to look at it from a racers perspective, would I rather add 14 grams of lead to the car, OR put on a fan that may make the car faster and the motor last longer... not much of a decision.

Also, perhaps it's finally time to simply make the races a bit longer. If you have to make a longer run time, you have the same amount of power to use, but need to use if over a longer period of time. This means a lower average heat (just over a longer period of time), less wear, slightly easier to drive. I feel if we had races that were a minute or two longer in time, then racing would be a better value too. That concept has already been well debated here in these forums and doesn't need a re-hash here, but it's part of the equation.

But to put it simply, would you rather get 15 minutes of track time on raceday, or 30 minutes? More bang for the buck with longer run times.

I don't know that the batteries, or the number of cells are the problem we are actually seeing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *SBH*
...but only because the sport have problems with motors, and speedos overheating and blowing up....
Blaming the batteries for failures in other products seems misdirected, the batteries work fine. Perhaps the manufacturers of the speedo's and motors need to fix the problems (and release better products)... Why would a person want to fix the batteries??? That's the only part of equation that works every time.

Mind you, they are my personal thoughts. Doesn't make them right or wrong.
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 06:58 PM   #245
Tech Elite
 
PitCrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle Indoor Raceway
Posts: 2,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAi
I think allways hobbyist best.

Personally i like 6 cell. It is clearly coming thru...

With 6 cell everybody had enough power etc.... to compete with the top. It was all in your own hands (setup + driving).

But.. Thanks anyway "Kentech"

Ps. This is racing to find who is fastets. Not who has softest lines and who is saving energy most and not dumping... (just my thoughs).
I like to go fast like everyone else, but;

in most other forms of racing, its not about all out speed except drag racing. The fuel consumption, tire wear and what not are all factored into each drivers approach. I also think that is fun.

I recently competed in a 24 hour enduro (for the Guiness world record) My team won, and it wasn't because we had the "fastest" car on the track, although it pretty much was. But we did some things to win, like turning down the EPA on the throttle to 85%. This saved the batteries, and the tires, and helped us spend less time in the pit, cause we had a slower pit than most of the other teams. We didn't drive for the fast lap, we drove to win the race. And it was alot of fun!!

This isn't necessarily the case with 5 minute racing, but I remember back to barely making run-time in stock offroad with 1700's. It was alot of fun too, to set your game plan and try to limit yourself with the throttle and drive smooth lines so you could save some battery for the end. I think that helped make better drivers too.
PitCrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 08:24 PM   #246
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Another quick thought.

This will not save anybody any money, and will cost you... sooner or later. For the sake of debate, let's just say that 5 cell racing is the hot ticket. The majority of every vehicle has been designed around 6 cell, from the electronics to the chassis.

Make no mistake, if 5 cell is the rule, you will see new vehicles (LOT'S OF THEM, it's the manufacturers role in our industry to react and supply what the racers want and need). All these new cars will be specifically made for that rule. A whole new amount of engineering can be done with the space saved from that missing cell, and the car will probably be better, it's just evolution. Same with electronics, you will need to re-purchase those too.

Do you think the manufacturers could make an even better race car if they all of a sudden had another 2 square inches available on the chassis? Yep.
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 08:47 PM   #247
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Bob - Manufacturers will come out with new chassis annually whether we run 4,5,or 6 cells. This is driven by the market. Hobbyists get bored and want a change every 10-12 months.

We have been thermalling speedo before Brushless. I saw it happen at the 2003 ROAR Nats in NC. The reason was the brushes we were running in Mod then. They had reached their limits. A month later we started running the CS Silver, Reedy Plutonium and Trinity XXX brushes. This bought us time until today where the cells have gotten to the point where nothing works. The better a driver you are the more motor problems you have since you are working your gear harder.

This is all Mod racing of course. Most of the guys here run Stock and 19T and do not have these problems.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 10:10 PM   #248
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Manufacturers will come out with new chassis annually whether we run 4,5,or 6 cells. This is driven by the market. Hobbyists get bored and want a change every 10-12 months.
That's fair statement. But I might add, that the majority of the people doing the most winning on a national level are not buying their own cars. Mind you, this is only a mod problem as you stated. And doesn't effect the US market, yet (5 cell rule). But brushless itself, just "popped" into our rules one day, didn't it. So I don't necessarily discredit anything that probably won't happen.

I was at a club race this weekend, and 6 of the cars in the rookie class were XXXS's..... most were Losi RTR's that these folks picked up and were club racing with stick packs. And I say, "bravo for them!!"

Where would a 5 cell rule leave these people if it became a universal thing? None of them had any troubles with motors or batteries. And any car with all the cells down one side isn't exactly going to be easy to re-balance.

Not everybody is running a new car. Were do we leave the 80% that are left?

I feel the problem is accurate as you described it, The batteries are better than some of the motors and controllers. But to solve the problem by fixing the part of the equation that already works "the batteries" doesn't really fix the problem. The problem is motors and speedos, the majority of the problems are brushless, and manufacturers are working on it. Nobody wants to be known as the speedo that can't finish a race.

Just seems as though the wrong thing is being addressed with this solution.
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.

Last edited by Bob-Stormer; 11-20-2006 at 10:20 PM.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 10:18 PM   #249
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentech
There's no need for unlimited power to have fun.
I can agree with that. But will add that the advantage we have now is kind of new for the majority of us that are NOT making the A-main at a national event. Which is we FINALLY have enough power to make some good racing decisions. You can now have way to much power for most tracks. You don't need the fastest motor, or the 1% of the top 1% of cells because you NEED the extra run time or you won't last 5 minutes...

You can officially have WAY more motor than you can ever use, and the batteries to make time with it. And pretty dang cheaply.

Anybody that has ever hand pushed a car down a straightaway to set the trim knows what I'm talking about.
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 10:43 PM   #250
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 91
Default This is Killing the Hobby

The among of Stupid changes in EP is already killing the sport. I see more and more migration to GP.

What we need is more robust Motor and ESC + longer run time.

All these decision is way too commerical - Hell Bull Shit!

This is going to help the EP Industry Short Term, longer term it's dead end.

Too much Speed? Why don't u build wider and longer track?
U have too much money does that mean u need to burnt or dump it away? And what quantify "too much" power and speed? U ever hand out with the 1/8GP guys?
maxima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:31 PM   #251
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxima
The among of Stupid changes in EP is already killing the sport. I see more and more migration to GP.

What we need is more robust Motor and ESC + longer run time.

All these decision is way too commerical - Hell Bull Shit!

This is going to help the EP Industry Short Term, longer term it's dead end.

Too much Speed? Why don't u build wider and longer track?
U have too much money does that mean u need to burnt or dump it away? And what quantify "too much" power and speed? U ever hand out with the 1/8GP guys?
Reduction of cells not going to kill of EP forever though.Its a cycle....

Anyway, by building longer & bigger tracks mean that the track owners would have to cough out more $$$ to buy land and more building materials to lay on the extra land.In some countries where land in a premium ,its not an option.

In 1/8 racing, in the pass 1/8 on road have no need for a air restrictor,but for the last IFMAR championships an air restrictor is used to reduce power & speed of the cars. Nitro drivers have different size venturi to limit power delivery,which in some case makes the car easier to drive and better lap times...

Anyway,why not everyone just hang along the ride of change. It see where we end up 3-4 yrs from now...
Ben.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:38 PM   #252
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dundee, MI USA
Posts: 3
Talking

I just returned to touring cars after a 2 year layoff...seems to be the same...constant change Bought a new '06 Masami BD Yoke, couple of new chargers, foam tires etc. Now have to purchase 4200 cells...WOW, can't believe we are up to 4200's. was hoping to be able to practice with old 3000's and 3300's to get up to speed again...might not be racin' for a while. Still gotta love this hobby/addiction LOL
MichiganYokomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:44 PM   #253
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganYokomo
I just returned to touring cars after a 2 year layoff...seems to be the same...constant change Bought a new '06 Masami BD Yoke, couple of new chargers, foam tires etc. Now have to purchase 4200 cells...WOW, can't believe we are up to 4200's. was hoping to be able to practice with old 3000's and 3300's to get up to speed again...might not be racin' for a while. Still gotta love this hobby/addiction LOL

Welcome back....You've rejoin during a time of big changes to the sport.
Ben.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:55 PM   #254
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dundee, MI USA
Posts: 3
Default

I dont think any switch to 5 cell will happen anytime soon in the US. I visited and plan to race at Josh Cyruls CEFX raceway the past weekend and most of my old racing buddies were running the same brushed motors, etc. 19 turn class seemed to have a good turnout. I do agree with Bob that if it catches on it will breed a whole slew of "hop-ups" for lack of a better word...maybe "revisions" would be better...chassis etc. I was really expecting to see more brushless setups after such a long layoff and was pleasantly surprised. The runtimes of our current setups amazes me! Maybe i am just getting old LOL...I remember being excited when 1700's hit the scene. I hope dont get discouraged and go to 1/12 scale.
MichiganYokomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:04 AM   #255
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Man´s best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganYokomo
I just returned to touring cars after a 2 year layoff...seems to be the same...constant change Bought a new '06 Masami BD Yoke, couple of new chargers, foam tires etc. Now have to purchase 4200 cells...WOW, can't believe we are up to 4200's. was hoping to be able to practice with old 3000's and 3300's to get up to speed again...might not be racin' for a while. Still gotta love this hobby/addiction LOL
4200 on the label that is....
Inside, they are closer to 4900 already....
That´s, our problem.
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
truk decision Sister Electric On-Road 4 07-17-2008 09:51 PM
Car Decision Evilstealth Electric On-Road 9 11-13-2007 08:05 AM
need help with carpet decision supradude Electric On-Road 10 04-02-2007 02:29 PM
Decision on batteries? grymg Electric On-Road 15 04-19-2005 10:57 AM
Engine Decision Charles_Howarth Electric Off-Road 9 03-29-2005 01:18 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:30 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net