R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-06-2006, 02:52 PM   #136
Tech Master
 
John Doucakis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 1,108
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I would like to say a few things regarding the new 5 cell rule.

During the EFRA AGM, and specifically during the meeting of the Electrics section, a lot of people were present, probably more than in any other section meeting.

These people were in the majority experts in the field, knowing very well what they were talking about.
There were representatives from ORION and LRP, as well as other manufacturers, whome I cannot mention with certenty as I am not well aware of who is who. I am pretty sure that there were at least racers from the GM camp if not actual GM technicians.

I just want to emphasize that decisions were taken during a meeting where the proposals that were submitted had a lot of thinking into them, and no decision was taken without being evaluated thoroughly.

In this respect when people write on this thread “what was EFRA thinking?” is just wrong.
If you disagree, that’s fine, but being rude only underestimates the value of your opinion, not others.

Anyway, I got this out of my chest, so back to the main subject.

The major objectives were the following:

1. Make cars, not just electronic equipment, more reliable. This includes belts, driveshafts, spools, diffs, and many other components.

2. Decrease costs not just by avoiding complete equipment failure, but also by prolonging the life of the current equipment.

The initial proposal was to go to 4 cells. This was further discussed as testing proved that although in some particular tracks, mainly very small tracks, or low grip tracks, the lap times were similar to the 6cell (7.2v) configurations, in the majority of the tracks, especially around Europe (this is EFRA, not ROAR, IMFAR or any other block), the 4cell configuration was plain simply too slow, and as a consequence boring, something which did not go inline with the concept of “open modified racing”

Another argument was that with the 4cell configuration, being effective as of 1st January 2007, it would increase the cost as manufacturers would introduce new chassis designs with better weight distribution. (this might become evident in the upcoming JMRCA finals) and inevitably, racers would have to purchase them in order to be competitive.
(there were some objections on this argument, but I am giving you the main idea)

Finally, the use of 4 cells significantly reduces the amount of voltage going to the receiver and servo, and thus the use of a receiver pack would be necessary. The future of receiver packs are LiPO packs, which also need LiPO charges that are on the expensive side.. So here is another cost increase which maybe was not well thought of by some people.
So, realizing that the market is not ready for a sudden change in the current form of racing, it was only the logical move to make a step by step change, and implement the 5cell rule, with a minimum weight of 1.350 grams (I will get back to the weight issue..)

The result of this rule will be the following:

1. Less cost to purchase cell packs, as obviously there will be one less cell in the pack
2. No effect in weight distribution as 5 cells are enough on one side to balance the weight of the electronics at the other side of the car, especially taking into consideration the fact that the weight of the cells increases almost with every introduction of a new cell.
3. Decrease of equipment stress / heat built up, as there is less voltage / current.
4. Decrease of equipment stress / heat built up, as there is less mass / weight to move.
5. No major decrease in speed, if any, as the drop in weight, compensates for drop in power.

Regarding the weight limit, yes I agree that it is a bit optimistic to be reached, but we all know that, apart from the batteries, equipment gets lighter and lighter and soon it will not be an issue to hit the 1350 gram mark.

So that’s it pretty much.
All of the above text is a brief description of what was stated during the meeting, which was very long.., and of course what I write is only what I interpreted of this meeting as I was present, and it is possible that others present, might have different views.

John.
John Doucakis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:04 PM   #137
Tech Regular
 
MartinSorlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oslo, Norway!
Posts: 307
Default

I have a comment on the weight issue for you John. With the 1500/6 cell limit, the minimum weight was easy to reach, thus making too light cars that are just as solid as thin champagneglasses was no use.

Now, you have given the manufacturers a reason to do exactly that. They have to make new layouts and lighten everything.

And, concerning layouts, did you know that the Corally RDX was lighter on the batteryside? That makes the 5 cell rule even more silly, even though I at first liked it.

Bring us a reasonable weight limit, then it's not too bad.
__________________
Martin Sørlie, 1985, R/C since 1995.
TLR - Spektrum
www.teamsmallsize.com
MartinSorlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:07 PM   #138
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Thanks for the explanation.
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:07 PM   #139
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Man´s best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

@John: You sum it up pretty good there.
@ Martin: You might now have some space over from one cell, and bring your reciever or speedo over to the left side?
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:16 PM   #140
Tech Regular
 
MartinSorlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oslo, Norway!
Posts: 307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
@John: You sum it up pretty good there.
@ Martin: You might now have some space over from one cell, and bring your reciever or speedo over to the left side?
Very true. But still, it's a loooow weight limit

But I can run stock with you and John Lara can't I? Haven't exactly been racing a lot the past year
__________________
Martin Sørlie, 1985, R/C since 1995.
TLR - Spektrum
www.teamsmallsize.com
MartinSorlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:24 PM   #141
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Man´s best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSorlie
But I can run stock with you and John Lara can't I?
No, because John is never showing up to any of the hundreds of races he put in his entry to....( a organizers nightmare. SHAME on you John )
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:27 PM   #142
Tech Master
 
John Doucakis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 1,108
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
No, because John is never showing up to any of the hundreds of races he put in his entry to....( a organizers nightmare. SHAME on you John )
By John, you don't mean me right?
John Doucakis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:35 PM   #143
Tech Elite
 
Francis M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 4,719
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Will the current discharge trays work with 5 cells?
__________________
TQ-racing Yokomo BD7 Airtronics
Francis M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:37 PM   #144
Tech Regular
 
MartinSorlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oslo, Norway!
Posts: 307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
By John, you don't mean me right?
No, we're talking 'bout Happyhippo... Funny guy... hehe...
__________________
Martin Sørlie, 1985, R/C since 1995.
TLR - Spektrum
www.teamsmallsize.com
MartinSorlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:39 PM   #145
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Man´s best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
By John, you don't mean me right?
Nope.
The other guy is John Lara. Aka Hippohappy, happyhippo or something like that..
You, I call John Alonso from now on
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 03:42 PM   #146
Tech Master
 
John Doucakis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 1,108
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
Nope.
The other guy is John Lara. Aka Hippohappy, happyhippo or something like that..
You, I call John Alonso from now on
lol !!
John Doucakis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 04:46 PM   #147
Tech Addict
 
MrBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 746
Default

"I sorry sir, I know you just got into this hobby and you and your son are here for your first race and your very excited, but we do not have a class for stick pack batteries we only run fou-err woops I mean five cells"....."Sir where are you going?"..."You can stay and wa..." "Sir, there is no need for that kind of language"

After all racing is not a hobby for the cost concious and the world appears certain to keep it that way.
__________________
TEAM ORION - AVIONICS - KYOSHO - KO PROPO - PEAK

"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
MrBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 05:44 PM   #148
Tech Master
 
TRF415boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,857
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
"I sorry sir, I know you just got into this hobby and you and your son are here for your first race and your very excited, but we do not have a class for stick pack batteries we only run fou-err woops I mean five cells"....."Sir where are you going?"..."You can stay and wa..." "Sir, there is no need for that kind of language"

After all racing is not a hobby for the cost concious and the world appears certain to keep it that way.
Don't be daft a beginner with a stick pack will not put his entry to a euro sanctionned event, not that he'll be able to anyway. Even at a club race he won't be put in modified and even so, any sensible race director will let him use his stick pack.
TRF415boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 06:08 PM   #149
Tech Elite
 
WheelNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Ab
Posts: 3,210
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to WheelNut
Default

A. 5-cell stick packs will be made avaliable by smart companies. Therefore Johnynewbie will be able to race.

B. If your car is light on the battery side with 5 cells why no just move you Rx, or ESC onto the battery side?
__________________
•Brad Comis
WheelNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 06:16 PM   #150
Tech Elite
 
Francis M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 4,719
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Everyone just go race. It will still be just as fun as it has always been.
I used to get worked up over these rules but i find it silly to.
R/C is my fun time and will leave the rulings to people that do this for a living.
__________________
TQ-racing Yokomo BD7 Airtronics
Francis M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
truk decision Sister Electric On-Road 4 07-17-2008 09:51 PM
Car Decision Evilstealth Electric On-Road 9 11-13-2007 08:05 AM
need help with carpet decision supradude Electric On-Road 10 04-02-2007 02:29 PM
Decision on batteries? grymg Electric On-Road 15 04-19-2005 10:57 AM
Engine Decision Charles_Howarth Electric Off-Road 9 03-29-2005 01:18 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:43 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net