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Old 02-26-2003, 12:17 PM   #76
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so you added, say, a 2mm collar one side and took off a 2mm one the other?
any way you could move the batteries and electronics closer to the centreline of the car as well?
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Old 02-26-2003, 12:31 PM   #77
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Default Tweaking a touring car?

Mort;

How ever you are adjusting your shock preload, split the difference left to right so your ride height doesn't change. In other words, If you need a full turn on the left rear shock collar to adjust tweek (which I feel is excessive) split that in half with the right collar by turning the right collar in the opposite direction. This should keep your ride height level side to side. If your using shock clips/spacers instead, the same principal applies.
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:21 PM   #78
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Pops-
I don't understand. If you add preload to one side and take preload off the other side, how does your ride height stay level side to side?
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:33 PM   #79
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Pop............
that's what i said.
isn't it? I think.
Just wasnt as clear as you put it
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:34 PM   #80
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Default Tweaking a touring car?

Quote:
I don't understand. If you add preload to one side and take preload off the other side, how does your ride height stay level side to side?
Assuming you start out with a level chassis side to side. The Tweak station says you need more pressure on the left side of the car. If you only adjust the left shock collar, the ride height will increase on that side. By compensating with the opposite side shock preload, the ride height remains the same. If you are having to make LARGE adjustments in shock preload (1 or more turns) and it's causing the car to sit cockeyed, then something else needs to be corrected first.
Try using a block under each end of the chassis when checking tweek (described earlier). If your chassis is BENT it should show up this way.
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:40 PM   #81
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This has been a very interesting discussion, but quite confusing. It seems like many people are talking about the same terms with different definitions.

The definition of Droop the kit manufacturers have given us is the distance from the bottom of the chassis to the bottom of the a-arm at full extension. This is evident based on the tools they have given us to measure it.

Another definition of Droop that has been given here is the amount of suspension travel from static ride height until the tires lift from the ground. This has also been refered to as Down Travel.

Down Travel (as I will call it) is the adjustment that I believe is more critical, but it is more difficult to measure accurately. As was mentioned earlier with the xacto method, you are eyeballing when the tires lift.

If your chassis is flat and your weight perfectly distributed, either method should give the same results. In actual practice though, most cars will have a slight chassis tweak and not have their weight perfectly balanced on the chassis.

As far as setting tweak with the shock collars, you can not adjust each end independently. Any adjustment to a shock will have an effect on the opposite corner. Put a car on 4 scales and this is obvious. If your car has a chassis tweak or the weight is not balanced, it will be impossible to have the exact weight on the left and right side at both front and rear and still maintain a flat chassis. The best you can do at this point is try to minimize the effect.

The best example of this is most TC3's. Without modifications or drastic redistribution of electronics and batteries, the right rear shock will ALWAYS have more pre-load than the left rear when the front wheels are balanced.

I hope nobody takes this as a flame, it is not intended as such.

Jeff Gilligan
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:45 PM   #82
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Default Mort;

Yea I guess you did. But 2mm per side for a total of 4mm difference is excessive. Though I know it was only an example.

timc;

The batteries should be fairly balanced by the electronics on the oppostie side of the car. Maybe your springs are WAY too soft. I never heard of anyone complaining of their car leaning more to one side before. (Your not trying to run 7 cells are you?)

The Tweak adjustment should be so minor that it should NOT cause your car to lean to one side.
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:45 PM   #83
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Assume you need 1 turn on the shock collar to make the tweak flat. Also assume that 1 turn will raise the ride height by 1mm (exagerated, I know - just an example)

Add 1 turn on the right side and your ride height will go up by 1 mm on the right.

Remove 1 turn from the left side and your ride height will go down by 1mm on the left.

Add 1/2 turn to the right and remove 1/2 from the left and you will add 1/2mm to the right and remove 1/2mm from the left.

Any way that I look at it, you will still have a ride height difference from side to side no matter how you split the adjustment.

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Old 02-26-2003, 01:50 PM   #84
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Default gotpez;

Quote:
Originally posted by gotpez
Assume you need 1 turn on the shock collar to make the tweak flat. Also assume that 1 turn will raise the ride height by 1mm (exagerated, I know - just an example)

Add 1 turn on the right side and your ride height will go up by 1 mm on the right.

Remove 1 turn from the left side and your ride height will go down by 1mm on the left.

Add 1/2 turn to the right and remove 1/2 from the left and you will add 1/2mm to the right and remove 1/2mm from the left.

Any way that I look at it, you will still have a ride height difference from side to side no matter how you split the adjustment.

Jeff Gilligan
You are 100% correct. However timc is complaining of a noticable lean to one side over the other and I feel a tweak adjustment should not cause this. Maybe a few thousandths difference, which is NOT measurable with a normal RH gauge. This is the way I have always adjusted my cars Electric and Nitro and never had a leaning problem. There must be some other problem, maybe with the weight distribution or springs being too soft to support the weight properly.

Last edited by popsracer; 02-26-2003 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:53 PM   #85
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Pops,

You are dead on. A NORMAL tweak adjustment shouldn't cause any noticible difference in ride height. On my TC3, all 4 corners are usually within less than 1/2 mm. And I haven't done any modifications to get the weight balance better.
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:01 PM   #86
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Default Tweaking a touring car?

gotpez;

This is a great discussion, I know in the end that I will learn something new from it.
Some people go to the extreme of using 4 scales to set their weight distribution, but on a TC it really isn't nessesary for the average person. On a Pan car though, initally for electronics placement, it's probably a good idea as Pan cars are much more sensitive to weight distribution.

I think that timc is missing something in his set-up and it can be correctly easily.
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:10 PM   #87
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I use 2 scales to set my tweak. It works a lot like a tweak station, but I see numbers instead of a bubble.

Since I have a TC3 without modifications, it is impossible to get it perfect. I usually get the front flat and the rear is wherever it ends up. The car works very well as it is, so I've never been willing to go through all the work to try and get it more balanced.

If timc is having that dramatic of a difference in his ride height, then he may be running VERY soft springs or the weight balance is worse than a stock TC3.
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:22 PM   #88
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Pops-
I'm going to grab a couple of scales from work and weigh my car side to side tonight. I really think the car is setup properly and no it's not 7 cells. I'll let you know what I find.
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Old 02-26-2003, 04:13 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by timc
Pops-
I'm going to grab a couple of scales from work and weigh my car side to side tonight. I really think the car is setup properly and no it's not 7 cells. I'll let you know what I find.
You could get your cat off that side of the car. . .

Does it change when you switch from front to rear? (I mean relative to the tweak station, NOT to the car?)

How about if you take a stack of quarters to the "light" side to see if the tweak is because of a massive imbalance. . .
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Old 02-26-2003, 06:53 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by timc
Pops-
I'm going to grab a couple of scales from work and weigh my car side to side tonight. I really think the car is setup properly and no it's not 7 cells. I'll let you know what I find.
It was just a thought (you never know). I still feel it is a simple problem that may have been overlooked. Have you been racing this car for a while and just recently placed it on a tweak station? How does it drive on the track.
I really never have heard of this kind of problem before. Makes me think that there is more weight on the battery side than the car is designed for (aka 7 cells) OR the shock springs are WAY too soft to support the weight. Have you tried the XXXS forum for help too?
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