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Old 02-17-2003, 02:41 PM   #16
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okay... so correct me if I'm wrong...

1. set droop
2. set camber
3. set toe
4. set rideheight
5. set tweak
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Old 02-17-2003, 02:57 PM   #17
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hey there aluma,

all of those alignments are based on ride height. tweak, toe, camber, and droop are all measured at or from ride height. i go 42351 for that reason.
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Old 02-17-2003, 03:14 PM   #18
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tweakers

I think that it is balance more than tweak that makes the real difference. You can think about this stuff until your red in the face, but if your chassis is unbalanced then you've only created your issues with tweaking, and given yourself headaches to solve it?
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Old 02-17-2003, 03:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by 429racer
When looking level with the table you happen to see one tire lift off the ground before the other then your car has tweak. While looking at your car (with the front end towards you as an example), if your right tire (which is actually your drivers side) comes up off the table first then you would need to put more pressure on the left back shock (which actually would be the passenger side) or take pressure off the back right (which actually is the drivers side of the car). Then flip the car aroud and do the same adjustment for the rear of the car.
After reading this thread I am a little confused.
Do I put the car on the tweak station and adjust the diagonally opposite shock if needed, or do i adjust the shocks at the end thats on the pivoting bar? trying to even out the adjustment side to side, i.e less preload one side and more the other to try to keep it balanced?
Also how about battery weight?
Do you guys take that into account?
After all every pack we own does not weigh the exact same amount? so do you use the one thats closest to an average weight of all you packs?
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:32 PM   #20
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Default Tweaking a touring car?

Guys;

1) Absolutely set ride height first. RH will effect camber and front toe (bump steer)
2) Since you have the RH gauge out, now is the time to set Droop.
Seaball;
Droop is set with either, shock length and/or the downstop screws (droop screws) if your chassis has them.

3) Next is Camber. This can effect toe slightly, so it is better to set this first.
4) Toe-in at both ends of the car. If the car has pillow balls in the rear, a Toe adjustment can change the rear Camber, so I will re-check this again (easy with set-up gauges).
5) Put the Car on the Tweak Station with the Rear of the Car on the pivoting end. Place a block under the front of the chassis to remove any influence from the Front end. Once the Rear is set, remove the block and turn the car around and adjust the front tweak.
6) Done.
Some people may prefer a slightly different order, but the idea is to adjust in an order that does not require you to go back and re-adjust the other settings several times.

Note: Pan Car driver may want to place their cars on a 4 scale board to check weight distribution.

Mort;

I too have heard that some people adjust preload from the opposite corner, but I dissagree with this practice and ALWAYS adjust from the same end.
Checking/setting at race weight is the Ideal situation, more so with an Electric car as the batteries effect the weight significantly.

Last edited by popsracer; 02-17-2003 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:44 PM   #21
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yes, it is set with either of those, but the preload collars will add or take away from the droop you've set if you move them after setting your droop.
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Old 02-17-2003, 07:14 PM   #22
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Mort: the tweaking I was talking about was just setting the car on a flat and level surface like a table, not on the tweak station. When I talked to alot of the other drivers at the races yesterday, some told me when I put the car on the tweak station with the front end on the pivoting level block I should adjust tweak by using the back shock collar adjustments. After getting the tweak set then I should flip the car around and check to make sure the back of the car is not all out of whack and everything was fine for me the whole day. As far as batteries go yeah there are different weights in batteries and that is why most of the time I would check tweak before I race even if the battery packs are the same 2400's, 3000's or 3300's.
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Old 02-17-2003, 07:51 PM   #23
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I think I would have to go with popsracer idea of droop before tweak, just because of the simple fact that alot of people over look tire changing sizes. If you true tires it is obvious that your ride height will get lower because your tires get smaller and you will then need to add more pressure to the shocks allowing your arms to drop further to get ride heght which in return will affect your droop settings, so therefore if you set your ride height and then set your droop you can see if it affects the ride height, then you can go onto setting your camber, toe-in and then tweak. Even after doing all this I think it is a good idea to check your ride height to make sure it is where you want it to be.
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Old 02-17-2003, 08:39 PM   #24
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go to www.teamlosi.com
they have somethings how to set tweek the way you are talking about, with a excato or something pointy.
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Old 02-17-2003, 10:27 PM   #25
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First of all, someone mentioned setting the station level with the pivoting block. That is correct. The station MUST be perfectly level both left to right and front to rear. If the bubble is just a LITTLE off, then your tweak will be that much inaccurate.

Pops is correct in almost everything. Thanks Pops, you saved me a lot of typing

The one thing I don't agree with is setting the front tires on the stationary end of the tweak station. I always set the rear of the car on the stationary end with a 10mm block underneath and set the front tweak first. The reason for this is that you are setting the end on the pivot to be true with the chassis first, so I want the front true with the chassis. After that, you don't turn the car around, you just kick the block out from under the rear of the car making sure it stays centered, then adjust the rear collars so the bubble is level again. This sets the rear tweak to the front.

After setting tweak, recheck the ride height and droop.

One note : If you are setting your droop on the tweak station, or if you are using droop to set your ride height, or you have no droop beyond static ride height, then you need to stop right here and go learn what droop is and the differences between droop, ride height, and how to set them. If you have zero droop and your car is hitting the droop screws at static ride height then you are driving a car that is "sprung" and you need to readjust everything making sure the car is NOT touching the droop screws at static ride height. After that you can make the adjustments to the suspension and THEN set your droop.
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Old 02-17-2003, 11:14 PM   #26
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Default Tweaking a touring car?

BigDogRacing;

Thanks for providing another method to check tweak. I may try them both one day and see which one I like better. You also touched on some things that I missed in my previous posts. Thanks.

429racer

I do not normally adjust ride height for tire wear unless it is excessive, have no new tires to install and need to squeak by one more heat. I REALLY do NOT like the idea of adjusting the OPPOSITE end of the car. Maybe it works fine, but it just doesn't seem logical to me. (Do they do this on FULL size cars?)

Seaball;

Shock preload will not effect the total extension height of the chassis. Yes, it will effect the Droop Measurement in relation to Ride Height, but if you put the car on Droop Blocks and measured droop before and after a ride height adjustment, it would NOT change.
Normally a VERY small adjustment in preload is needed to fix chassis tweak, probably only a few thousandths. HPI now sells shims for this too. I've never had to adjust more than 1/2 turn total (shock collars) when fixing tweak. This small of an adjustment will most likely make an insignificant change to ride height and can be compensated for with threaded shocks.

Guys;

For anyone who is serious about their racing. I feel the following tools are absolutely essential:

1) Digital Calipers/Verniers. (Shock length, Foam Tire Diameter, Com Dia.)
2) Set-up Gauges. (Hudy, Integy) The only Truely accurate way to set Caster, Camber and Toe.
3) Set-up Board. Something true and flat. I personally use a piece of 1/4" Tempered Glass.
4) Tweek Station. (MIP, Integy, Etc.) I have the Integy Laser Tweak station, but the MIP station is just fine.

A properly set-up and tweaked car, will be MUCH easier to drive and will remain stable at the edge.

Last edited by popsracer; 02-17-2003 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 02-18-2003, 09:28 AM   #27
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Tweak is used to correct for slight twists in the chassis and slight differences in the length of left and right springs. If these two items were perfect and the weight was placed correctly in the car then then just making the spring collars even left and right would do the job and tweak would be perfect.

Using a block under one end of the car on the tweak station will correct for uneven spring lengths (left and right) on one end of the car, but will not correct for slight twist in the chassis. The goal is to make the cross corner weights equal. Left front + right rear = right front + left rear. The only way to do this is to have all four tires on the tweak station. If you put all four tires on the tweak station after using the blocks then you have undone what you did with the blocks. Tweak adjustments on a tweak station like the MIP is an adjustment that does the front and the back of the car at the same time. It does not matter whether you adjust collars on the front or the back to make the cross corner weights equal. Use the collars that will make left and right collars most even. If your weight is placed correctly in the car when you reverse the car on a tweak station you will get the same reading. Full-size race cars do this with cornerweight scales. They don't use a block on one end. All four tires are on the scales.

On a TC3 if the right rear of the chassis has warped up a little from motor heat you should concentrate your spring collar adjustments, used to set the tweak, to the rear of the car.

You can be very fast with your car out of tweak, but you can be a little faster if this adjustment is set correctly.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 02-18-2003 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 02-18-2003, 09:59 AM   #28
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Hi guys. Greetings from Malta.

POPSRACER.

I agree with your suggestion about a block when adjusting tweek. That's the system I have been using all along. In fact I actually set the front with the rear on a block, then set the rear with the front on a block, then just remove the block and check both front and rear again. They are usually spot on anyway by that stage.

SEEBALL.

I can't see how your droop can vary by preloading the shocks, but please explain, as I may be missing something. As Pops said, droop can be set by either spacing inside the shocks to limit down travel, or on some cars by adjusting the droop screws.

I run a Yoke MR4 Sp in stock myself, and prepare my son's TC3 which he races in mod. We both happen to be leading our respective classes in our National championships at presaent. That's apart from preparing every Tom, Dick, and Harry's cars, which I am doing all the time since I have a shop. When our cars are set up correctly I find very little variation between shock collar adjustments. If the car is right they are usually pretty equal, left to right.

However, at the Worlds some years ago, I was surprised to see a car that was being driven by a multiple World champion, which had an enormous difference in shock adjustment left to right.

It was some form of consolation to me actually, for it seems that even the works cars can be tweeked.

regards

Joe from sunny Malta.
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:14 AM   #29
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So if you are looking at the front of the car on the piviot then you adjust only the front shocks? I thought that if say the front right is to low then you adjust the Rear Left Shock to help the Right Front. and so forth.... then flip it around so that the Rear is on the Pivot Block. I think I saw this in a article that Pavidis did back in a magazine about tweaking the chassis
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:40 AM   #30
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Default Tweaking a touring car?

John Stranahan;

The block is only used under the Front of the chassis when setting/checking the Rear of the Car. The Rear of the car is significantly more important to the overall handling and therefore the reason for isolating any influence of the Front. Also this really has been assumed to be about T/C's. Pan cars are MUCH more sensitive to minor tweak variations
I understand what your saying about chassis twist, Using the block under the Front should not mask any twist. If it's that bad, there is something really out of wack that needs to be corrected first. If I was running a Pan Car, I think that I would buy a 4 scale board too.

mike_Webb;

I'm not saying the method that you and others describe is wrong. I just personally do not like the idea of adjusting the opposite end of the car. It doesn't seem logical to me.

One last thing, I do not normally use tires on the Tweak Station. I will use set-up discs. I feel that tires are a variability that I really cannot control to my satisfaction. (Rubber Tires)
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