R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-31-2006, 08:58 AM   #1
Tech Fanatic
 
FreqETag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Show Me State
Posts: 975
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Cool The Official 4300 Brushless/LiPo/Foam Touring Thread

Some of us have decided to start an "Official" thread to discuss the next wave in R/C: Brushless/LiPo/Foam Touring Car.

We hope everyone around the country will start to take notice and join this exciting class. Feel free to discuss, share setups, tuning, tech talk etc with your fellow racers here.

The goal is to hopefully get an "Official" class that is welcomed at all races around the country, not just on the club level.

Thanks and enjoy the freedom of Brushless/LiPo.

Freq
FreqETag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:07 AM   #2
Tech Fanatic
 
FreqETag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Show Me State
Posts: 975
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Talking

Just wanted to update with our local scene.

Track: Fastlane Raceway, Blue Springs Missouri.

Class: 4300 Brushless Touring

Rules: BRL rules for motor/speedo. Foam Tires. LiPo batteries. NiMh allowed up to 4200Mah. 51oz weight restriction. Standard Roar body rules.

Comments: Great class. 12-15 racers already, more to come. Races are usually decided by seconds, not laps. Qualifying is looking to shape up like a NASCAR race, with the top 6-10 on the same lap!. Perfect. Some of the best drivers are running this class. Nice to know setup and skill can win the race!
FreqETag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:08 AM   #3
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Are most people running this class running with foam or rubber tires? Rubber tires seem more like they would fit the theme of being easier.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:11 AM   #4
Tech Apprentice
 
ccs77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raymore, MO
Posts: 91
Default

As a newbie to electric I think this 4300 Brushless Lipo class is great. The maintenance Brushed motors and NiMH batteries require is enough to give anyone a headache. Plus I really think it levels the playing field a bit.

Now if I can just make a lap without breaking my car I'd be set...or better off anyway.

First question for the new Brushless thread-

What temps are acceptable for these motor when you pull them off. My car seems plenty fast for my skill level but it's only coming off at 115 degrees, I think 130 is the absolute highest I've seen. My roll out seems super high at 31.35, but it seems to suit the fast track layout Fastlane has right now.
ccs77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:13 AM   #5
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

We're doing foam here in KC. I know a lot of people think rubber tires are the holy grail of R/C racing, but a lot of us around here have tried that route and thoroughly disagree. There's definitely more to be learned about setup, but we found that you can easily spend more money throwing it at rubber tires than you can with foams. Plus, we've been racing foams for years now, and it's what we know.

We're learning a lot about the 4300 motors, and what kind of wiggle room there is for tuning them. One thing that's come to light, unfortunately, is that in on-road, the original SS rotor seems to be the fastest. And, they're at their very best brand new. They seem to fade fairly quickly, especially with heat, so there's the potential to throw money at those as well, and get yourself back into a situation where you can buy speed.

Our testing with the sintered rotor looks like it's very close in speed, and doesn't suffer from any of the above problems, so some of us are using that. I prefer its feel, reduced maintenance and how quiet it is, but I'm told I lack a tiny bit of edge compared to the other cars.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:14 AM   #6
Tech Champion
 
Core Creations's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back in the booth
Posts: 5,743
Trader Rating: 95 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Core Creations
Default

I can't imagine being able to put the full power of ss4300/Lipo down with rubber tires...at least on carpet.

I tell you what...if you want to push your driving and setup skills to the max every run every race day...this is the class!

I have been racing sedans for close to 10 years and in those 10 years, there was nothing close to the simplicity, ease of maint., pure power and excitement of this class. It will absolutely make you a better, cleaner driver.
__________________
Core Creations paint thread

Mini Mafia Kansas Chapter - where the monster minis grow!

Last edited by CIVIC91; 10-31-2006 at 09:58 AM.
Core Creations is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:25 AM   #7
Tech Fanatic
 
FreqETag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Show Me State
Posts: 975
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Talking

Its a common misconception that Rubber tires last longer and are cheaper than foam.

If you look at what the "Big Guys" do, they will run them 2 runs and toss them. The same is true on carpet, maybe more so than asphalt. After about 3 runs you can literally set your watch by the reduction in lap times.

As far as temps go, the lower the better. The common practice has been to gear up until you thermal then back off a half or full tooth. I don't agree with this and Novak backs me up. As soon as you thermal the motor, it will be more prone to thermaling there after. Better to be close than to actually thermal.

So 115 degrees is safe, I'd like to stay under 140. Anything above that is too close for comfort in my book.

Lastly, with these motors more than any other type, pinion/spur height makes a difference. The motors have so much torque that a smaller pinion/larger spur really helps in the heat department.
FreqETag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:29 AM   #8
Tech Fanatic
 
FreqETag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Show Me State
Posts: 975
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
...more like they would fit the theme of being easier.
The real joy in this class is not the simplicty of it (although it sure is nice to have free time in the pits) the real joy is that the racing is so close.

The best drivers at our track (who are usually 2 laps up) are now within reach.

So in a way you get the best of both worlds: Simplicity and Equal Speed.
FreqETag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:33 AM   #9
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Using the sintered rotor, I usually roll mine out around 33 to 33.5MM. Yea, that's high, but that's where it's fast. The motor comes off the track around 130 and the ESC around 100. I'm not using a heatsink on the motor or a fan on my GTB.

With the stock rotor, it seems like 28.5 is about the right rollout, give or take a little. We've found that stock rotors tend to heat up more the older they get, usually in direct response to their magnetic strength. Also, driving style plays a huge role in how hot they get. If you're aggressive and throwing the car into turns rather than being smooth, you'll see more heat.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 09:37 AM   #10
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreqETag
The real joy in this class is not the simplicty of it (although it sure is nice to have free time in the pits) the real joy is that the racing is so close.

The best drivers at our track (who are usually 2 laps up) are now within reach.

So in a way you get the best of both worlds: Simplicity and Equal Speed.
No doubt, it's been every bit as much about parity as it has about simplicity.

I know there's other people running 4300 classes around the country. Omaha for sure has one, and I think I heard about people doing it in Texas somewhere. Please share with us what you've learned, and what you think. We're really loving it here in the Midwest.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 10:19 AM   #11
Tech Master
 
padailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Council Bluffs, IA
Posts: 1,603
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

I race the 4300 class in Omaha on Wednesday nights. That is the biggest class on those nights most of the time and the guys love it. We have chosen rubber tire because it is cheaper. Yes I(we) understand the arguements above about rubber tires but most here are not concerned with losing a little bit of speed for our club races. I have run the same set of tires for over 3 months and it hasn't made that much difference. I could never have run a set of foams that long. Our class right now is mostly made up of newer guys that got into brushless when they started for the low maintenance. Although some of the fast guys are switching over. Not too start a arguement about rubber vs foam.. its just what we have chosen and I think everyone would readily switch to foams if that's what the racers wanted to do, but for now we like the rubber tires. Our class is not specifically lipo but it is allowed and it is what I run. We are finding more people talking about switching all the time and it will continue to grow. The guys love it especially because the Wednesday night races do not have as many entries as our Sunday races do so you aren't in such a rush to do batteries and such between rounds when there isn't a lot of heats.

I guess my question to the KC guys is why did you decide to put a limit on the lipo capacity? I run a 6000 mah lipo and could probably get two nights of racing out of one charge... that is so cool!
__________________
www.hobbyplexraceway.com

Tamiya TRF417X (Lion's Automotive GTR)
Tamiya TRF416X
Tamiya F104W MP6/4 converted to F104X1 (Renault R30)
padailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 10:26 AM   #12
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by padailey
I guess my question to the KC guys is why did you decide to put a limit on the lipo capacity? I run a 6000 mah lipo and could probably get two nights of racing out of one charge... that is so cool!
I think that was just their initial reaction when still figuring out LiPo and trying to decide what to allow and disallow. I think it would be pretty easy to convince them to disregard the mAh limit and just keep the voltage limit. Everybody is using the Orion packs right now, so it hasn't been a big deal. You using the MaxAmps pack?

Yea, the rubber vs. foam debate is played out, we can probably leave that behind. It's too bad our tracks aren't on the same page with that, though, since we're pretty close and get decent crossover between tracks at big races. Hopefully some of your rubber 4300 guys will throw foams on for a weekend and check out our December race. If there's an issue with the mAh of the LiPo packs, I'll talk to the race director and see what he thinks.

I think the guys in St. Louis are experimenting with a mixed 19T/5800 class. I haven't heard much about 4300 from them, though.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 10:27 AM   #13
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Are all the Omaha guys running the SS rotor? Is anybody experimenting with the updated or sintered rotor up there?
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 10:27 AM   #14
Tech Champion
 
Core Creations's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back in the booth
Posts: 5,743
Trader Rating: 95 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Core Creations
Default

Basically we wanted to have people using either the Orion/Peak 4800 or 3200...no one is runnig any other type of Lipo. It seems the easiest way of keeping equiptment level and safe.
__________________
Core Creations paint thread

Mini Mafia Kansas Chapter - where the monster minis grow!
Core Creations is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2006, 10:31 AM   #15
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,519
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

Perfect thread!

We are trying to start a 4300 class at our track.Lots of interest but I have a question.IS it 4300 and 19t together or 4300 only?We have tested on a good size asphalt track and found that the motor is so similar to 19turn we were hoping to run them together in order to eventually get more people into brushless.Whats is your tracks class restrictions as far as 19t/4300 running together?

Thanks!
racenut123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
JRXS GTB 4300 13.5 lipo charger lipo AMB joaquinriviera R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 22 09-12-2008 01:43 PM
The *OFFICIAL* *UNOFFICIAL* LiPo Thread sosidge Electric On-Road 16 09-20-2007 09:40 PM
NEW THREAD PIC PROB MINI INFERNO PACKAGE BRUSHLESS LIPO XTRAS scottcop R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 03-12-2007 06:47 PM
KSG w/ Novak 4300 SS 4300 Brushless System Kal28 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 11 12-28-2006 03:09 PM
Touring Car Setup Guides - Official thread cyber3d Racing Forum 0 12-25-2006 04:16 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:14 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net