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Old 11-02-2006, 09:22 PM   #91
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I have a question? Witch rotor has more rpm? If we new this straight from your testing ground it would really help. there are three different ones as far as I know. I think it would be a nice short cut to a big question? And thank you I'll look forward to meeting you I hope you make it by. Also what should the coil wire measure? And what consistancy, or I mean hand wound or machine? And please dont start putting #s on these things I 4 1 dont want to know. When can we exspect a ventalated one? If my 4300 could just take a breath of freash air I think I could stomp those 19s .Oh and dont worry we wont hold you to it. We,, shall I say resort our thoughts all the time. Just when you think you got it figured out, another post pops up. If you can just set us straight on at least one thing we'll appreciate it. Later Charlie. I know your probably saying slow down slow down. But you said ask away.
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Old 11-03-2006, 04:29 AM   #92
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I believe that the Novak motors are hand wound and slotted.

Anthony give me a call.

Later,
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Old 11-03-2006, 06:43 AM   #93
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We are going to dissasemble one tues. night hope you can make it. Were going to measure it. Poor Syndrome dosent know it but the one he loaned me is going to get dissaebled and compared. I sure hope he dosent read this he might cancel the honey moon. Any how we'll be sure to post results. 2 5800s will meet there doom. The only hope they have is if Charlie can save them? That is if he can tell us before they meet the sodering iron.
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Old 11-03-2006, 08:02 AM   #94
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Ok hate to get into the rumor mill.... but I've heard some talk of some sort of voltage cutoff coming out from Novak for their Brushless speed controls. I hope it's true!

Along those lines I do not use a any kind of voltage detection/cutoff with my lipo. Now I have a 6000 mah so running out of juice during a race night isn't a problem. In the lipo threads I've read the talk seems to be that they are a nice security blanket but not really necessary. Well I took my lipo, charged it up and I just wanted to see how long I could go and what it felt like when it dropped off. I was really hoping it was as noticeable a dropoff as people had said. Well somewhere about 2/3 the way through my second race night the car felt a little slow.... oh now I know what the dropoff is like. Once I noticed it I probably ran a 1 1/2 laps then walked to my pits with everything still on and fan going. Checked the voltage.... 5.9.... so most detectors are set around 3V per cell so the feel of the car really is a detector in itself. So personally those type devices are a waste of money in my opinion. However if Novak truely does come out with a cutoff.... I'd probably be all over that.

Well also I think I'm starting to swing over to the foam side for tires. Now I like running rubber tires but maybe 4300 is a bit much motor for rubber tires. Now I'm talking club level I know the pro's can wheel rubber with any motor. I think the 13.5 would be a great rubber tire class. I have a feeling that in the next year Omaha will have 4300 as a foam class and stock/13.5 will be rubber. I would even think by our big race in March that lipos will be allowed for the 4300 class. Of course just speculation on my part.
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Old 11-03-2006, 08:24 AM   #95
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Yes Novak has one, attaches to any speedo. The Mamba Max has that feature built into the speedo and is fully programmable. Not sure if the Novak one is programmable or not.

Later,
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Old 11-03-2006, 09:47 AM   #96
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The Novak LiPo Cut Off <link>

I think its a great idea. Especially for newbies. But as stated, a nice security blanket.
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Old 11-03-2006, 05:28 PM   #97
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Often the question of Sensor/Sensorless power comes up. I think the best way to answer is that "it's possible" for either type of motor to offer more power then the other.

If both were built to identical specs, meaning magnet size, coil type, stator size and all of that, they would be the same. That is not the case though. Most of the sensored motors are designed around one particular type of motor. Sensorless systems often times are not. This allows them different characteristics then other motors.

It's not so much that one is better or worse then the other, it is that they are different. And nothing that is different will be the same.... Oh jeez. That sounds corny.

I'm sure that some sensorless systems offer "on the fly" timing adjustment, or have some sort of software that tweaks that. Personally, I'm not aware of specifics on any of them. These things I'm sure have an effect on how the motor drives, but is probably done to help the "feel" or throttle curve if you will. At some stage I'm sure Sensored systems will offer the same type of adjustments. But in the end, I think linear power delivery will reign supreme.

Sintered Rotors are much stronger, and have a higher tollerance to heat.

Voltage and current go hand and hand. WIth out both, you loose on all fronts. You need current and voltage.

As far as "readings" on motors, it's simple, and we have a detail on our website of what type of meter to use.

An Inductance meter will measure the inductance of each coil essentionally telling how many turns it is. We are in the process of publishing the data on what each of our motors should be. From our testing we find our motors to all be within a few percent. The best way to measure, is with the motor out of the car, and just the rotor removed. This tells you what "just" the coil is. Hopefully we'll have the website updated with this information in more detail soon. There is no need to tear the motor down, just take out the rotor.

All our motors are hand wound here in Irvine CA.

Under no load, the Bonded rotors have more RPM. How much I don't recall. But under different loads this is not the case. The Sintered rotor always draws less current though. So its much more efficient, and will pull more gear at the same time. Its like magic.

Our stand alone Lipo safety's also have a "mountable" LED that blinks in case you don't notice the "burps" of the throttle. It comes on just after the noticable "drop" from the pack. We agree, that if you're sharp, and pay attention, a cutoff isn't needed, but often times in the "heat of the battle" not all of us pay attention.

I'd say that eventually future Novak products will incorporate Lipo safety profiles as standard.

Thanks
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Old 11-03-2006, 06:09 PM   #98
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I am not 100% on this but when I read it it made sense to me. The sintered rotor runs cooler because it can be manufactured a bit smaller which allows a larger air gap between the "can" of the motor and the rotor. It can me made smaller because it is a stronger magnet. The heat of a brushless motor comes from the "friction" ( believe it or not() of the air against the rotor and can as the rotor spins. Again, not 100%. So if you know better please feel free to set me / us straight : )
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Old 11-03-2006, 06:48 PM   #99
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Charlie your good. Thanks that was a fast response. I sure hope you hang out here alot. It sounds like the sintered rotor is going to be the only one to buy? But will we be able to buy the stock SS if we want? And if so . It will probably only be as the demand for it is strong Huh?

THANKS AGAIN !!!!
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Old 11-03-2006, 07:08 PM   #100
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Padaily foam is fun easier to drive and a lap or to faster. Its really a good way to go a little faster. There sure is alot of talk. Rubber or foam? I myself I prefer foam with my brushless thats about all i have ever run. At our track civic 91 made a great point, that with rubber the brushless on carpet may have to much grunt . I guess maybe to hard on diffs or something. I'm sure he'll be around sometime. maybe he can comment? I'll say this rubber is a great way to afford a better paint job.
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Old 11-03-2006, 07:49 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
I'll say this rubber is a great way to afford a better paint job.
It's about time.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:39 PM   #102
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Quote:
Padaily foam is fun easier to drive and a lap or to faster. Its really a good way to go a little faster. There sure is alot of talk. Rubber or foam? I myself I prefer foam with my brushless thats about all i have ever run. At our track civic 91 made a great point, that with rubber the brushless on carpet may have to much grunt . I guess maybe to hard on diffs or something. I'm sure he'll be around sometime. maybe he can comment? I'll say this rubber is a great way to afford a better paint job.
I agree.... its just been fun running rubber tires.. .maybe just cause it was something different. I must say it made me drive more and I think I'm better because of it. I may have to get a 13.5 also so I can give that a try.


Charlie thanks for the insight... appreciate you taking the time.
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Old 11-04-2006, 06:10 AM   #103
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Daily sounds like you got it figured out to me. I agree no matter what level your at, rubber is a great way to hoan your driving skills. maybe the pros run rubber alot, because there really practicing? NAH those guys left practice way behind. I'll just say foam cost more if your a stay out front kind of guy? but it is effertless racing to my exsperiance I had to drive with both hands on the wheel when I did rubber. Any how heres to foam, If your fast and I mean fast. I hope THE RCGOD IS IN MY CORNER and I hope you litterally drive at least one wheel off good to read you I run brushless/lipo.
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Old 11-04-2006, 06:41 AM   #104
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Charlie,

We've heard motor tuners say since the beginning that brushless motors will end up being every bit as tunable as brushed motors, and that it's just a matter of time before this happens. Yet, at big races now, half the guys in mod are usually running brushless (at least) and we don't see anybody trying to speed them up with their own brand of shims, or specially zapped rotor or whatever.

You guys, as the creators of the motor, have been about the only people that have done much tuning on them. How much room do you think there is for these motors to be adjusted by the layman once people start figuring them out. Do you think we'll see a similar situation to the one we have now where you've got people buying OEM cans and adding their rotors, or adjusting timing, or whatever else they can think to tinker with?
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Old 11-04-2006, 06:48 AM   #105
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Adam,

Aren't you suppose to be getting married right about now?

Congrats and best of luck to you and your family this weekend and we will see you when you get back from your honeymoon.

Later,
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