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Old 10-31-2006, 02:56 PM   #31
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Great discussion. This season I made the switch to brushless and couldn't be happier. Over here in STL we plan (so far) to run brushless rubber (CS27). We are tossed up between the 5800 and 4300. I personally would like to run the 5800. With the lower traction of rubber and the extra power of a 5800 you'll never be power limited during the race. You'll always have more power than you can physically use. This cuts out the motor tuning completely. No one has even considered using a different rotor. The stock 5800 makes more than enough power. Plus, 19T will be welcome in the class for this season. This keeps the power fair and allows us to have a bigger class.

If I head west for KC this winter I'll bring a 4300 and foam. I think either way foam or rubber brushless racing will be more fun and relaxing (lack of maintenance) for all involved. After running a strong gas season this last summer I could use a low maintenance class. This is mainly the reason I plan to race rubber. No tire truing, foam chunks, rollout changes, gearing changes, ride height changes, roll center changing, weight changes, sidewall flex changing, and so on. The only changes on my car will be to increase it performance instead of changes to maintain it's performance. Just my .02 on why I prefer rubber.
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Old 10-31-2006, 02:59 PM   #32
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Anyone got a rotor zapper?
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:10 PM   #33
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Ok 19 vs. 4300 very close so very close the only problem? The 4300 will be on the egde of thermal. THE FASTLANE MOTO DONT BRING A BOX FULL OF EXCUSES. But where in apoint series that exsperiment will have to wait. I will also add that with my 4300 its pretty hard to over drive the track but the other night isaw Bills 19 was 1 second faster but you could see he could over drive the track so close so close.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:44 PM   #34
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I just wanted to say my hats off to you guys on this thread for organizing yourselves and finding a solution that seems to be working excellent for your local racing scenes. Also for being able to discuss different opinions in a very intellegent manner. The more I read the more I was wondering if TC would ever be able to find the next level in a proper way and this thread has given me hope. When I design new products it's for people like yourselves who I design for, those that race for the enjoyment of racing and not for the ego, the bling, or the politics.

The people are speaking and they are coming across loud and clear.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:06 PM   #35
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The really nice thing I have seen with brushless/li-po is that the lap times stay extremely consistant. They just don't drop off.

Like said a good 19T with real good 4200s will be faster at the beginning of a race but the lap times will begin to slow a little bit. He started at 10.8s but fell to 11.3s by the end of the run. Where the brushless/li-po combo just does not fall off. Start with 11.0s end with 11.0s Got to love it.

Later,
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:14 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
I just wanted to say my hats off to you guys on this thread for organizing yourselves and finding a solution that seems to be working excellent for your local racing scenes. Also for being able to discuss different opinions in a very intellegent manner. The more I read the more I was wondering if TC would ever be able to find the next level in a proper way and this thread has given me hope. When I design new products it's for people like yourselves who I design for, those that race for the enjoyment of racing and not for the ego, the bling, or the politics.

The people are speaking and they are coming across loud and clear.
We're all using the batteries you designed. You guys have really worked to bring LiPo into the mainstream for club racing, and it's truly been a joy. After using LiPo these past few weeks, I really do think it's been a bigger improvement to my racing experience than brushless even. We just don't talk about it a whole lot because the batteries just work. For all of us, our packs are within some ridiculously small margin of voltage after a race, and nobody feels like batteries are part of the picture at all, now. They're fast from bell to bell, which is how it should have always been.

I think track directors like our own that embrace this sort of thing deserve a lot of praise. We all feel like we're part of something special, and helping to shape the future of racing. And don't forget the BRL guys, they're blazing the same trail on the oval scene, and their rules for the 4300 class are extremely detailed and intelligent.

For these last few months, racing has felt new and exciting again, and continues to be that way every week. Most people that have tried it feel the same way. I hope all of you out there that want to try BL/LiPo sedan on-road will encourage your track directors and fellow racers, and give it a shot. Don't wait around for the rules to change, make your own rules, or find some that work for you. There are options out there that might vastly improve your racing experience.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASH
The really nice thing I have seen with brushless/li-po is that the lap times stay extremely consistant. They just don't drop off.

Like said a good 19T with real good 4200s will be faster at the beginning of a race but the lap times will begin to slow a little bit. He started at 10.8s but fell to 11.3s by the end of the run. Where the brushless/li-po combo just does not fall off. Start with 11.0s end with 11.0s Got to love it.

Later,
Yea, and it was Bill Sydor, and he's no slouch. It's safe to say he's consistently in the top 30 at big events, and knows a thing or two about tuning motors and handling batteries. He went out there and turned a few 10.8, 10.9 and 11.0's in the first minute or so. Once his pack flattened out, it dropped off to about 11.3 - 11.5. The 4300 guys all had fast laps in the 11.0 to 11.1 range, but like you said, it was consistent and lasted the entire race. That was an extremely tight layout, too, so the 19T didn't get to assert itself as much as it would on a more open track. The 4300s were noticeably faster out of the turns, but the 19T ate them up on the straights.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:32 PM   #38
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Are you guys messing with me? If I dont find a faster way to this site I'm going to clean my foams off in sombodys hair.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:41 PM   #39
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Syndrome you hit it not one dispute on batteries not 1. the only dicusion is rotor rule and you know how I feel about the truth of it the rule should be one or the other. The stock one novak wins the sintered the racers win and we will feel how the pros feel in a bumper to bumper race. And I absolutly Love this thread this my new home.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:44 PM   #40
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You'll have to forgive UN4RACING, he's fast on the track, but new to the Internet! :-)
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:51 PM   #41
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Yeah he has 85 posts since 10/27/06 and is averaging 18 posts a day.

Later,
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:14 PM   #42
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Yea I'm not dumb I just write this way.
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:25 PM   #43
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It sounds like adjusting the timing on the motors in the ESC doesn't do much more than change the power band. I hear tuners talk about the doom & gloom of brushless being so tunable by tweaking parameters with a computer. And even if that's true, I'll take that any day over the black magic that's required to tune a brushed motor.

Lets see, I can have a spreadsheet of numbers to try (or better yet, download a "tuned" profile and upload it to my ESC) or I can spend years trying to master the art of proper brush combinations, or spring tensions.

Don't be fooled by the FUD you'll hear people spread about brushless. They are and will be somewhat tunable, but it's not going to be like it is today where companies can exist that do noting but tune motors. At least, that's my impression of the way things are going.
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:28 PM   #44
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Really, the only tuning option on these motors currently worth paying attention to is the rotor choice. We haven't spent much time with the updated rotor, and have mostly focused on the SS and sintered rotors instead. As I understand it, the sintered rotor basically does the same thing the updated version tried to do, except it doesn't continue to suffer from the ill-effects of heat. Like the sintered, it's got more torque and changes the power band. However, I don't know if it's as capable of handling the heat from the increased gearing.
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:32 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Really, the only tuning option on these motors currently worth paying attention to is the rotor choice. We haven't spent much time with the updated rotor, and have mostly focused on the SS and sintered rotors instead. As I understand it, the sintered rotor basically does the same thing the updated version tried to do, except it doesn't continue to suffer from the ill-effects of heat. Like the sintered, it's got more torque and changes the power band. However, I don't know if it's as capable of handling the heat from the increased gearing.
I have been running mine at 5.4 final lately. No sign of thermaling.
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