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Old 10-31-2006, 10:35 AM   #16
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Perfect thread!

We are trying to start a 4300 class at our track.Lots of interest but I have a question.IS it 4300 and 19t together or 4300 only?We have tested on a good size asphalt track and found that the motor is so similar to 19turn we were hoping to run them together in order to eventually get more people into brushless.Whats is your tracks class restrictions as far as 19t/4300 running together?

Thanks!
They're pretty close, but a good 19T is noticeably faster on the straights. The 4300 has the advantage out of the corners, though. It ends up for some interesting racing when the 19T guys can pass on the straights, and the 4300 guys can pass in the turns. Right now, we haven't been mixing them unless there's a small turnout. It's probably an okay thing to do, though on a big flowing track, a 19T is going to have the advantage.

We've been real big here on creating a class that's very balanced in terms of equipment and performance, so we're kinda keeping the 19T guys out of it, otherwise it would kill the spirit of the whole thing.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123
Whats is your tracks class restrictions as far as 19t/4300 running together?
Someone may beat me to this but, we try to keep it brushless only. We will let the 19t guys run with us if we are thin, but generally we don't allow it.

A "Team Level" driver with good NiMh and a "tuned" 19t can be a bit faster. So we prefer to keep them banished to the "old school" classes

see, I knew Johnny Fast Fingers would beat me to it.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:42 AM   #18
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I see where your coming from.A good KD 19t is faster on the straight but the infield the brushless is King!

So the Stock rotor is faster then the sintered rotor setup? I am getting together my gtb/4300/sintered rotor setup but was wondering if the actual stock rotor has better performnce.Then why go to the sintered rotor if that the case?Keep the suggestions coming!I appreciate it.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by racenut123
I see where your coming from.A good KD 19t is faster on the straight but the infield the brushless is King!

So the Stock rotor is faster then the sintered rotor setup? I am getting together my gtb/4300/sintered rotor setup but was wondering if the actual stock rotor has better performnce.Then why go to the sintered rotor if that the case?Keep the suggestions coming!I appreciate it.
I think it remains to be seen which rotor is fastest in a 4300 sedan. I personally think they're very close, but some of the guys at the track insist the stock rotor is faster.

But, the stock rotor is a giant pile of crap. The magnet slides around on the shaft easily, it fades with heat, and it's noisy as hell with the brass shims in there. Plus, it runs hot and is easy to thermal, which is frustrating.

Grab yourself the ribbed endbell for Velociti motors (not the HV version) and a sintered rotor, put it in your 4300 and you're set. The ribbed endbell is lightened, about 1/2 oz. lighter than the "updated" endbell, which is the same one that comes on the Velociti motors without the ribbed can. It will give you the larger front bearing, which allows you to use the sintered rotor.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:47 AM   #20
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Its a common misconception that Rubber tires last longer and are cheaper than foam.
I dont think it is a misconception at all. They do last longer then foams. They just arent as ideal after the first couple of runs. I raced half a summer on rubber tires. So did the people I raced with so it was all fair.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:48 AM   #21
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Also you could flip the coin and say the local fast guy is the one running the Brushless system while the rest of the field is running 19turns.He still wins.Now it appears that the Brushless has the advantage.I am trying to gauge what your experiences are in real world racing.We have noticed in club racing that the 4300 is just different in power band then a really good 19t and thus on the average track there shouldnt be a real advantage to either.I am not trying to start an arguement,just trying to get the facts from those who have more experience then myself.Again keep it coming!
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:53 AM   #22
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Well, fast guys will always be fast I guess. I think mixing the two is fine, but a 19T IS faster. If you look at the results from the Novak race last year where they had a 19T and 4300 sedan class, it was close, but the 19T motors definitely had the advantage. I would think on a big, flowing track, it would be more noticeable.

I would say they're close enough to run together as long as the 4300 guys don't mind that someone with a good 19T is going to be faster. The 19T guys are probably fine with the idea of being faster, I'm sure it makes them think they're using superior technology. :-)
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:53 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by racenut123
Also you could flip the coin and say the local fast guy is the one running the Brushless sytem while the rest of the field is running 19turns.He still wins.Now it appears that the Brushless has the advantage.I am trying to gauge what your experiences are in real world racing.We have noticed in club racing that the 4300 is just different in power band then a really good 19t and thus on the average track there shouldnt be a real advantage to either.I am not trying to start an arguement,just trying to get the facts from those who have more experince then myself.Again keep it coming!
Ive ran both on the same track. I was about .5 seconds faster per lap with a 19T then the 4300. That was on ~15 second laps. It was an outdoor asphalt track that was pretty open. I think it is all going to depend on the driver and track. They are close but for me 19T was faster.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:56 AM   #24
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Some interesting discussion here:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=161967
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:02 AM   #25
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We could debate all day about Rubber vs. Foam on Carpet.

I prefer Foam. The idea is there should be a Foam class AND a Rubber class for those that want it.

Most of the other regions I have seen are limiting the Brushless/LiPo guys to mandatory Rubber. Thats what the just did in Omaha.

I think the problem is people (race directors) are looking at it like a "budget class".
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:22 AM   #26
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Everybody is using the Orion packs right now, so it hasn't been a big deal. You using the MaxAmps pack?
Yes ... the main reason I chose Max Amps was my budget... secondly I wanted a higher capacity for our enduro so I can attempt to put in a good long run. Secondly why I didn't go higher in capacity was the 6000 was the closest in size and weight to the sub C batteries I was using so the balance of my car wasn't thrown way off.

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Are all the Omaha guys running the SS rotor? Is anybody experimenting with the updated or sintered rotor up there?
I think one guy is running the upgraded rotor and Tim Ski I think just bought the sintered to we'll see what he says about that. Our oval guys have really messed with the rotors/endbells/bearings and the what I have heard from them the major benefits of the sintered rotor are...

1. Heat.... seems that they are running about 15 degrees cooler so they can grab a little more gear

2. The stronger magnet seems to make the car have better more consistent braking which translates to better drag brake.. if you like that sort of thing.

Like I said not much experimenting so far with onroad but I'm sure as some more better racers switch over there will be guys trying different things.
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:53 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by FreqETag
Most of the other regions I have seen are limiting the Brushless/LiPo guys to mandatory Rubber. Thats what the just did in Omaha.

I think the problem is people (race directors) are looking at it like a "budget class".
Well speaking from Omaha the mandatory term should be used very loosely. Most of the 4300 racers run on Wednesday nights with turnouts not real high. The 4300 guys wanted rubber so the track director made it a rubber class even though he would have prefered foam. He was more thinking budget for the sportsman and stock classes. I think for the future he hopes to have 13.5/stock for the budget conscious. Also I think part of his reasoning was to get the 19T class going again which had kinda died. So now if there isn't enough for stock rubber they run with the 4300 rubber. If someone comes with a 4300 foam they can run with the 19T.

Right now the 4300 class in Omaha is being driven by budget conscious fairly new drivers for the most part. As evidence to that there were 13 entries in the 4300 rubber class at our recent Midwest Carpet Championships. There were 7 guys with 23+ laps in qualifing and 6 with 21 or less laps. Of the second group 5 were locals. So you can probably see our motivation for the 4300 class seems a little different than KC's. I'm not much for travelling for racing yet but would like to sometime... December might be a good time to try it out since our Enduro is in December and I'll be running foams for that. We'll have to see.

On a side note.... I pitted next to the Fransden's this weekend! Nice folk... Congrats to Shaggy on winning the Concourse! Ok back to our normally scheduled programming!
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:07 PM   #28
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The way it's working out in KC is that we're having rubber tire as kind of the budget, beginning class. There's some good drivers there though, and a few guys that just prefer to run rubber. We're allowing stock/13.5 in that class.

Foam sedan is generally where the more experienced racers mingle. The 4300 class is the largest, and most competitive. We're using it as an opportunity to have a class with reduced maintenance, and an even playing field. Nobody really minds the foam tire thing that I know of. I don't ever hear anybody wishing they could run rubbers instead.

There's a few guys hanging on to the brushed motors, and they seem to bounce between 19T and stock, depending on the night. We've slowly been stealing them away to our 4300 class, as well as a few guys from stock 12th scale.

There's a lot of very talented off-road guys in this town, and a few of them having been showing up to race some sedan during the winter. Lately, they've been running the mods from their off-road cars in the sedans and having fun with that. They sometimes bounce around into stock and 19T too, depending on the night and the turnout.
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:27 PM   #29
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Don't have much time to talk, but just wanted to stop by and let everyone know I found the new thread.

Oh, and to say that I love brushless LiPo and will viciously attack anyone who says anything bad about it.

Just kidding......or was I??????

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Old 10-31-2006, 02:55 PM   #30
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This is awsome. Heres my 2 cents and its simple, The stock rotor is lihgter brand new its faster But I think there ceramic. Any how peak performance You would be lucky to get a full night at fast lane we have done it all keep tuned in. About the only thing we havent done is put them in water. we actually almost cuaght one on fire we have ran these motor hard. It is a tuff call. The centered rotor is very fast and reliable its definitly the way to go. Like a new car you just gotta see how fast it will go. If you run the stock rotor I can tell you now have plenty on hand and run the newest in the main.
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