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Old 11-27-2006, 09:53 AM   #166
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Syndrome

at fastlane, got to see the 4300/lipo/nimh/foam sedan class first hand on sunday. it was very impressive. cars appeared to be as fast as Mod sedans from a few years back.
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Old 11-27-2006, 11:34 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
Syndrome

at fastlane, got to see the 4300/lipo/nimh/foam sedan class first hand on sunday. it was very impressive. cars appeared to be as fast as Mod sedans from a few years back.
Oh, cool! Are you local to Kansas City, or just out to visit or something? We have a good turnout on Tuesday as well.

I'd say the cars are just a hair slower than 19T. We're running LiPo or 6 cell NiMH, and not having any issues with too much speed, or burning up electronics. I'm not sure who that 4 cell stuff is for, but it's not us.

The biggest gripe I've got is that on foam tires, we're going through them very quickly. The torque of the motors really does a number on tires, especially the fronts. I'm not a giant fan of rubber tire racing, but I'm beginning to think for the ultimate low-maintenance class, that might be a better choice. As it stands now, I basically have to adjust my gearing and ride height every race. Like someone else said, we're going through tires faster than nitro.
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Old 11-27-2006, 12:39 PM   #168
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came up with 7 racers from SPFD, we ended up adding 5 - 12ths, 2 oval pan, and 3 stock rubber TC entries this past sunday. our track was shutdown for T-day. it was my 5th time i've been up there. too hard to make Tuesday races there. i ran 12th, Bob put the "writ of habeus Smokin!" on the field, he had it down pat, i had a good race going with 2nd qualifier, but he got punished bad when marshalls failed to see his brightly colored car needing help on the track. i usually run stock/foam on carpet and asphalt, my Pro4 was broke O/H for parts.

i like the class you guys came up with and staying on it...but, going from track to track everybody is running variated sedan classes, someplaces from week to week, or changes occuring on the race day. so it makes it hard to travel and race sedan. BL/Brushed, rubber/foam, lipo/nimh, maybe soon 4/6-cell?

going rubber, really doesn't save money. those who change their tires regularly (like 3-4 runs, not races) will be have the advantage. costs end up being greater. many were doing 1 run rubber tires in vegas. 3 years ago i was at a track out west and we started running nitro foams on carpet. 45F 40R shores from Orion. they lasted 3 times longer than a set of plaids/purples. they were much better than running rubber which we tried in 2002.
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Old 11-27-2006, 12:48 PM   #169
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Ah, cool, glad you guys made it. I'm sorry I wasn't there to see the show!

I don't think we should switch to rubber, I just slightly envy their option of not messing with ride height and gearing all the time.

We're going to have to figure out something on the tires I think. Guys are talking about cutting down nitro foams like you mentioned and stuff like that. It's a fairly competitive class, though, so we don't want to make changes that will put us at a disadvantage unless everybody agrees to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
came up with 7 racers from SPFD, we ended up adding 5 - 12ths, 2 oval pan, and 3 stock rubber TC entries this past sunday. our track was shutdown for T-day. it was my 5th time i've been up there. too hard to make Tuesday races there. i ran 12th, Bob put the "writ of habeus Smokin!" on the field, he had it down pat, i had a good race going with 2nd qualifier, but he got punished bad when marshalls failed to see his brightly colored car needing help on the track. i usually run stock/foam on carpet and asphalt, my Pro4 was broke O/H for parts.

i like the class you guys came up with and staying on it...but, going from track to track everybody is running variated sedan classes, someplaces from week to week, or changes occuring on the race day. so it makes it hard to travel and race sedan. BL/Brushed, rubber/foam, lipo/nimh, maybe soon 4/6-cell?

going rubber, really doesn't save money. those who change their tires regularly (like 3-4 runs, not races) will be have the advantage. costs end up being greater. many were doing 1 run rubber tires in vegas. 3 years ago i was at a track out west and we started running nitro foams on carpet. 45F 40R shores from Orion. they lasted 3 times longer than a set of plaids/purples. they were much better than running rubber which we tried in 2002.
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:53 AM   #170
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Is it really necessary to balance lipo batts ? just like everyone do with NiMH ?

I find it interesting to know that lipo balancing is actually done after charging process is completed ( unlike NiMH which require balancing / equalizing per cell after discharge cycle ).
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:18 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
Is it really necessary to balance lipo batts ? just like everyone do with NiMH ?

I find it interesting to know that lipo balancing is actually done after charging process is completed ( unlike NiMH which require balancing / equalizing per cell after discharge cycle ).
Seems to vary greatly from one battery manufacturer to another. The guys at Orion have been using their original test pack for 2 years without the need to balance it. All you're doing is charging each cell individually (rather than together) to ensure they're both fully charged. The only reason it's tricky is because of the tricks used to isolate each cell on its own by using the balancing plug. I'm sure Mr. Black could explain it better than I did, though.
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:36 AM   #172
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I heard that if they get to out of balance one will over charge and possibly blow.
I think thats why it's best not to discharge more than 80%
WE been charging running 5 or 6 minutes letting them cool, repeaking them and running them again. In other words run a round and recharge. No black magic. No discharge or repeaking before the heat.
It dosent get any cheaper or easier than that.
Incase your wondering I'm running 4800's orion in an FK05.
That is by far the best fit for 4800's.
That is until I get that new LOSI.
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Old 11-28-2006, 09:23 AM   #173
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The gents running or have run lipos here have found minimal if any need for balancing. Several of us that are not running Orion lipos are gonna go together and get a balancer to share. Probably will only take about 30 secs to balance but can't hurt. If I had to buy one by myself I personally wouldn't bother. There are some Orions around also but no one has felt the need to balance them either.

I ran my lipo for 40 mins straight last weekend... only one 30 sec stop to temp everything. When I noticed the power drop I took it off the track and hooked it up to my ICE. 6.5V and less than 90 degrees.... so I'm wondering ... why are you letting them cool? Are they getting hot? I would think if they are getting hot you are running just as much risk of a problem as over charging/discharging.

Usually what I do at the track is charge it up at the beginning... then charge it again if I remember to... that's it. Of course I have a little higher capacity battery which I can make it easily an entire night. Last Wednesday I made sure to put it on the charger before the main because we ran a 12 min main. But as was mentioned it doesn't get much easier!
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Old 11-28-2006, 09:24 AM   #174
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Un4Racing or Syndrome : Do you equalize each cell after discharge ?

Correct me if I made wrong assumption, ...... thx to you first.

I see no point of buying balancing equipment ( hyperion LBA10) if I have to equalize both cells by bringing down one cell with higher voltage to match the voltage of another cell ( lower voltage ). I see no point of doing that.
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Old 11-28-2006, 09:35 AM   #175
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Quote:
I see no point of buying balancing equipment ( hyperion LBA10) if I have to equalize both cells by bringing down one cell with higher voltage to match the voltage of another cell ( lower voltage ). I see no point of doing that.
If I understand the balancing thing there are basically 2 ways (ok sorta 3).

1) With Orion packs if you charge each cell separately to capacity you have balanced the pack. No need for a balancer.

Packs with balancing tap
2) balance charge - not sure exactly how this works but it either charges the lower cell up to the higher or does some combination of charge/discharge to get the cells equal and then completes the charge... balanced pack.

3) balance discharge - slowly discharges the higher cell to equal the lower. Again you get balanced pack.


I had considered the charge balancer like the LBA10 but will go together with buds and get a cheaper one. I at first wanted one to hook up with my ICE to balance why I charged. But as I've researched more just a cheaper discharge only balancer will do fine. Should take very little time to balance the packs. If you have an Orion don't bother.. the ability to balance is already built in.
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Old 11-28-2006, 10:30 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padailey
If I understand the balancing thing there are basically 2 ways (ok sorta 3).

1) With Orion packs if you charge each cell separately to capacity you have balanced the pack. No need for a balancer.

Packs with balancing tap
2) balance charge - not sure exactly how this works but it either charges the lower cell up to the higher or does some combination of charge/discharge to get the cells equal and then completes the charge... balanced pack.

3) balance discharge - slowly discharges the higher cell to equal the lower. Again you get balanced pack.


I had considered the charge balancer like the LBA10 but will go together with buds and get a cheaper one. I at first wanted one to hook up with my ICE to balance why I charged. But as I've researched more just a cheaper discharge only balancer will do fine. Should take very little time to balance the packs. If you have an Orion don't bother.. the ability to balance is already built in.
Thanks buddy..... great info.

I just buy all of them ( lipo packs, charger, and balancer )

one day will be needed someday.
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Last edited by asw7576; 11-28-2006 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:41 PM   #177
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I ran the GQ carpet tires tonight and had a MUCH better experience in terms of tire wear. In spite of the goofy orange rims, I've consistently felt these are the best quality tires I've used. They don't come unglued, they wear nice, and they don't chunk easily. They even ran well once I changed my setup to suit them. I don't know if they're a disadvantage at the top levels, but I put in my fastest runs with them tonight, and didn't have any of the recent headaches I've had with the Parmas and Jacos that wear down so quick, especially up front.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:35 AM   #178
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Letting them cool is only a habit. When I started lipo Mark a exsperinced lipo racer said thats how he does it, and has never had any problems. And I was used to doing that with HYdryds. There is a couple of racers that ran one pack all summer in the heat out doors, they didnt cool them or any thing, Just run'm and charge'm. No problems. I'm just trying to be respectful to my packs just incase.
My packs even with a 5.5 brushless have never been hotter than 100 or so degrees.
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:25 AM   #179
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Quote:
Letting them cool is only a habit. When I started lipo Mark a exsperinced lipo racer said thats how he does it, and has never had any problems. And I was used to doing that with HYdryds. There is a couple of racers that ran one pack all summer in the heat out doors, they didnt cool them or any thing, Just run'm and charge'm. No problems. I'm just trying to be respectful to my packs just incase.
I understand... I think with lipos most of us probably do things on the side of caution even though it shouldn't be necessary. I have heard they will actually cool down a little when you charge them. I haven't tried that but I'll be running tonight so I'll pay a little closer attention to the temps and see what happens.
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:06 AM   #180
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Anyone buy lipo from maxamps.com ? are they good batteries ?

I'm thinking to buy 8000Mah and glue it to my MSX..... is 8000Mah overkill ?

My GTB 3.5R is here now.
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