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Old 10-23-2006, 10:06 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by BlackKat
Gee Art, your horse died....maybe you shouldn't gear him at 5.5
it wasnt smoke coming out the rear end either
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Old 10-23-2006, 10:10 AM   #77
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LOL!

Got my popcorn and drink !
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Old 10-23-2006, 12:12 PM   #78
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Very interesting discussion here.
I had no idea that there were this many tracks running rubbers on rug.
No one in our area runs rubber/carpet, I never even gave a thought as to why. But, if I had to venture a guess, I had have a agree with Ray Huang. If enough of the Factory drivers flipped over to it I'd be all for it because of the fact that foams are a pain in the A$$. I want to race the class with the most competition in order to improve myself as a driver and working set-ups. In my area, that means you run Stock Foam. We can't even get enough guys to flip over to 19 turn at club events.
Do I fore-see rubber taking over foam? Most likely not, not in the near future anyway. Would I like to see it happen? Sure. I think running a hand full of asphalt races on rubber this summer made me a much better driver and helped me understand the car better.
Here's a thought, would New-B's stay in the hobby longer if rubber tires on carpet became more widely accepted and run at the club level?
With all the advantages to rubbers listed above, it seems to me that this would appeal to those individuals with less car set-up/tuning experience. And not have to invest $200 or $300 in a tire truer cut foams all the damn time. Sure some guys scuff rubbers, but its not that big of a deal to HAVE to buy a truer.
Just some random thoughts...correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 10-23-2006, 12:29 PM   #79
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I have more of an observation then anything. It seems funny to me that a electric 1/10th4 wheel drive car (sedan) is run on a completely smooth high traction surface (carpet) using high traction tires (foam), And then there are the electric 1/10th 2wd drive buggies and trucks run on a lower traction track using lower traction tires (rubber) with the keyword being 2wd drive. Kind of makes me go hmmmmm!
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:43 PM   #80
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This is an interesting thread! the big meetings round me this winter are all running a control tire - LRP vtec24 which last forever! I can run 10+ meetings on one set of these at club events pretty consistently but i'm doing mod at the biggy so will probably need a new set every meeting or two. It is true they can get baggy round the edges - generally a sign they've had it. the control tire we used last year was a pig - we had massive grip roll issues and they died within a meeting for the mod boys.

Carrying over setup from outdoor to indoor is always good too but not all tires are the same diameter or behave the same.

You can't say rubber on carpet is slow, when you get to the end of that straight you can't just turn in like foams, you've got to pull up quick - they look fast when their going off there's more challenge in it i think, holding the car on the edge of grip trying to eek out more corner speed.

Plus you don't need a poxy truer!
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Old 10-24-2006, 12:23 PM   #81
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If rubber tire becomes more standard on carpet. We could probably see the first Sedan carpet worlds.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:13 PM   #82
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Personally I like running rubber tires. Its less hassle with changes to setup then foam, meaning set your droop once and forget about it. As far as tires lasting I dont see were some people are getting 2 or 3 runs off of them. Last season we started racing rubber tires, we set the rules for two tire choices cs27 and rp30, and I bought about 4 sets of tires which lasted the whole season running 2 times a week, and at the beginning of this season I still am running the forth set for three weeks now. I have had to run foams a few times when the rubber crowd is low and its O.K but after a few races I need more foams, and to be competitive you have to true them down, lets just be honest here foams are not cheaper to run, if you like foams thats fine just run what you like, but I never believed that it was cheaper than rubber tires in the long run. Also the fast guys are always going to be fast on foam or rubber, and the factory guys or the guys with unlimited funds are always going to be able to run new sets every 4 or 5 runs if they choose, because lets face another fact that fresh tires foam or rubber is always faster, maybe not by laps but 10ths off of your times.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:31 PM   #83
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I get a lot more than 5-7 fast runs out of foam tires, even when they're taller than 56MM. At club races where the traction doesn't come up so much, the taller tires actually perform well. The CS27's we ran would slow down after a night or two, and then you'd be at a disadvantage to guys willing to throw money at a fresh set of tires. It was MORE expensive, even with standard tires, because it became of game of who could buy the most tires.

If you take care of your foam tires, and stay off the boards, they'll treat you well. Rubber tires are nice too, but there's something very compelling about being able to carry so much speed in the corners, and not just in a straight line. Aside from the hassle of rollout changing (and the required setup changes along with it) I prefer foam tires.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:44 PM   #84
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As I said before race what you like. As for the cs 27 I have found that I prefer rp 30,s to the 27,s because they seem more consistent over longer periods of time. And as I also mentioned you will always get the guy who can spend boat loads of cash on this hobby, but it is up to your group of racers to start setting standards. Josh Cyrul mentioned that at cefex there are about 4 to 8 die hard rubber guys, and I am one of them, and we all have a great time racing with each other because we all have the same philosophy about it, which is just have fun, and keep the cost down to a reasonable level. I also think that if there were more entry level classes like novice and stock rubber classes you might see an increase in racing, because then they can spend more time improving their driving and set up skills than going fast, and as their skills improved and they wanted to jump to a faster class like a foam class they can transition to it much better and wont get discouraged right away and quit. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:01 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrodney
Personally I like running rubber tires. Its less hassle with changes to setup then foam, meaning set your droop once and forget about it. As far as tires lasting I dont see were some people are getting 2 or 3 runs off of them. Last season we started racing rubber tires, we set the rules for two tire choices cs27 and rp30, and I bought about 4 sets of tires which lasted the whole season running 2 times a week, and at the beginning of this season I still am running the forth set for three weeks now. I have had to run foams a few times when the rubber crowd is low and its O.K but after a few races I need more foams, and to be competitive you have to true them down, lets just be honest here foams are not cheaper to run, if you like foams thats fine just run what you like, but I never believed that it was cheaper than rubber tires in the long run. Also the fast guys are always going to be fast on foam or rubber, and the factory guys or the guys with unlimited funds are always going to be able to run new sets every 4 or 5 runs if they choose, because lets face another fact that fresh tires foam or rubber is always faster, maybe not by laps but 10ths off of your times.
I have to agree. The other thing to keep in mind is in a club enviro everyone should be promoting fun cost effective racing. I dont know why guys insist on dumping cash on fresh rubber tires to win races at the club level. Should be more braging rights if you win races with old tires! Seriously Im a big fan of foam but at my life changed(kids,wife,work) i dont have the time to go hard core foam and deal with the extra work. And it is extra work i have been on both rubber and foam for years and got all the gear to run properly. FAct is regardless of wich tire is faster(we know its foam) rubber is simply simple. At the club level guys should not be trying to out spend each other to win races. And i truelly beleive a good driver will win regardless of tire age. Sure they where out but there is no reason not to get 10+race days out of the tires or more. Even everyone is running old tires its the same speed for everyone.

Gettin new racers into racing is big thing at most club and rubber is what allows those RTR guys a chance to go racing. We can safly suggest to joe-newbei that if het gets a set of cs22s rp24s he is ready to rock on our track. No truers, no rollloutcharts, no need for setting and resetting ride and droop. Stock on rubber is the no brainer. I would not endorse mod on rubber on carpet. I dont think in the situation it makes much sence..
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:47 PM   #86
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[QUOTE=Joel Lagace]I have to agree. The other thing to keep in mind is in a club enviro everyone should be promoting fun cost effective racing. I dont know why guys insist on dumping cash on fresh rubber tires to win races at the club level. Should be more braging rights if you win races with old tires!

and old electronics
and old batteries
and an old car

It's called Sportsmanship .Good luck finding any at a carpet track.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:56 PM   #87
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I've been doing this a long time and have seen more than one racing program go belly up because some of the expert drivers start treating every club race like the nationals with the budget included. If you are seriously looking at being competitive in this hobby, it isnt about all the new gear you bought to win the next club race, it's about how much you have improved your skillz at each club race which should be your focus.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:56 PM   #88
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No doubt that if everyone runs older tires, it is way more cost effective than foam. In my experience, that didn't happen, and people wound up on foam, at least the real serious guys. Rubber is still popular, but it seems that a lot of the guys who run it in my area are less serious. Nothing wrong with that, and they probably have smaller tire bills
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:48 PM   #89
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I did not read the whole thread, but when i ran touring cars in 2000-01 there was only rubber in the midwest where i raced... Foam eventually moved in..

the one thing i always heard about rubber tires is you can only go so fast.. What this did was make the slower guys look closer to the faster guys.. it kinda bridged the gap a bit.. Now put a fast guy on foams, and an average guy on foams and the gap gets bigger.. Foams are nicebecause they dont slow down run after run.. rubber tires seemed to slow as they wore..
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:08 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I get a lot more than 5-7 fast runs out of foam tires, even when they're taller than 56MM. At club races where the traction doesn't come up so much, the taller tires actually perform well. The CS27's we ran would slow down after a night or two, and then you'd be at a disadvantage to guys willing to throw money at a fresh set of tires. It was MORE expensive, even with standard tires, because it became of game of who could buy the most tires.

If you take care of your foam tires, and stay off the boards, they'll treat you well. Rubber tires are nice too, but there's something very compelling about being able to carry so much speed in the corners, and not just in a straight line. Aside from the hassle of rollout changing (and the required setup changes along with it) I prefer foam tires.
no argument about the speed of foam, its great, i like 'em, and not knockin 'em, however, consider this:
at the iic in vegas for example... in the rubber classes you were limited to 4 sets... everyone was running the same tire (premount spec handout) ...with four qualifiers and a main, you don't even get to run one set per run (and $28 per set! c'mon!)

the days of rubber costing more was years ago, now with the premounted spec handout tire, and restriction to how many sets you can buy... is it the money race it used to be?

don't get me wrong, foam will always have a place. but rubber compounds have improved, traction is better and longer wearing, and the days of messing with infinite rubber and insert combinations is no longer. if you haven't run rubber in a while, give it a try. it probably won't take over foam, but you might like the challenge of being able to setup the car properly.
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