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Old 10-27-2006, 05:59 PM   #226
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Scott, I will answer your stuff in each section.

1. I am glad you like the make regionals mean something idea.....every major team I have talked to thinks its a great idea, many of which have posted on this thread.

As for the PT thing, I think they should be required also. As a track owner, I can tell you how big of pain it is to keep the house ones working....not to mention the cost and annoyance of tracking them down when they are not turned back in. The things are not cheap and cutting them from the needs of track would be great....I'd rather lend out a PT than the house style ones.

The thing with nationals has a bunch of different parts to it.

First, Stock Offroad Nats is kinda a one of a kind.....the event features very very few full factory drivers....sure you have guys with 50 off deals, but there is rarely any full factory flyboys like you see at the other races. It's basically a privateer event.....

Second, while onroad has embraced PTs for a while now, they are STILL not the normal in offroad in many areas. Some of our local tracks just upgraded, some still have not.....so for many racers, having a PT gave them limited use.

Third, the cost......in onroad, you need one for your car.....even if you race 19t and stock.....maybe a 2nd one if you do race 1/12th scale. In offroad electric, many of the racers race 2-3 classes.....but unlike onroad, this requires a whole different car....so now, you are at $300 for a set....now, I know you can switch them from car to car, but trust me.....the logic you get back on that is "well, I might as just use a house unit if I gotta install it every run"....

I know the stuff may seem strange, but thats certainly what happened.....I literally had a guy call me thursday and ask if it would be waved.....he was ready to pay on the phone for his entry and drive from Idaho.....but he wasn't willing to spend another $300 to outfit his three cars.....I offered to loan him a couple.....he said he didn't take handouts.

Please also keep in mind, that from what I am told, it was a new rule.....and had never been enforced. We sold out of PTs at the race......and probably 20+ people told me they just bought there first one for the race.

2. The National track idea is just that.....and idea. Something we should look at....make sure it either would work or won't work. ROAR is a non-profit, so there is many funding sources we can qualify for, not to mention donations and such.......we might be able to get a track for free.....worth taking a look at, thats all I am saying.

3. The laxed memberships at the local level would still be up to the track......ROAR is not going to FORCE a track to let a non-member in....what I am saying is allow these local 2 day races and such, that are not normally sanctioned, BE sanctioned. Work with the tracks to maybe offer a discount or something to ROAR members.....and possibly, with the races sanctioned, maybe we can develop a points system for national or regional rankings....

So the proposal would not effect club based tracks one bit......you guys get to keep going just how you have always been going......and hopefully the other tracks can draw in new people for ROAR membership and they can then race at your track too......

In the end, its nothing more than ROAR trying to get back to the grassroots level and be there....when people see the name ROAR and quality of the event, with good rules and such hopefully, they will join up.

Later EddieO
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Old 10-27-2006, 06:05 PM   #227
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http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...=1#post2632066

This is the Carl thread that hasn't seen any action for weeks !! Nowhere near as juicy as your thread Eddie.

Does merit reading though, as this is a democracy remember !!

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Old 10-27-2006, 06:09 PM   #228
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Thanks Eddie for taking the time. Still not ENTIRELY clear on some of it, but I think clear enough for "campaign stage".

As re: PT's...I have PT's in ALL my cars that are raced (two TC's that see limited use, two 1/12 cars that see the majority of use, and a 1/8 off-road buggy. That's five PT's, and I have a back-up in my radio case (with my spare receivers and servos) for a total of six. I just see them as part of the "equipment", just like batteries or a motor when I build a car. And it ain't like I'm "loaded" either and don't have other places to spend my money--I just see it as part of what's needed to compete. Then again, to your point I came at it from an on-road background, though not for the reasons (switching around) you suggest.

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Old 10-27-2006, 06:31 PM   #229
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I think regions need re-definition. They are toooooooo bid to illicite any sence of belonging.

Look at Region 11 Alaska to the far east side of Montana and to the bottom of Oregon. There's no incentive for a club in Alaska (they must exist) to apply for a regional race.

I remember region 2 is insanely big. Conversations with John Lee (Queens Off Roaders) way back in the 90s had a lot of this complaint mixed into the regional race.

I just dunno. Nobody really wants to travel these days. Kids stay at home with their parents til they're 26 FFS.

So smaller regions might make for bigger horizons.

If ROAR was state oriented, then it might be easier to qualify for National races, and have more people proportionally.

Just a bit outside the box, but something else to think on.

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Old 10-27-2006, 06:39 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Creating and online signup system would be easy as cake........I bet any web dork could have it done in a weekend.....Sure would be cool too for the guys wanting to race at a 2 day event and not have to worry about the track getting their signup stuff in......

Later EddieO

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Old 10-27-2006, 06:40 PM   #231
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Glad to see that this has gotten back on track. Is is actually good reading. Maybe we can keep it that way.


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Old 10-27-2006, 06:51 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Vector
I think regions need re-definition. They are toooooooo bid to illicite any sence of belonging.

Look at Region 11 Alaska to the far east side of Montana and to the bottom of Oregon. There's no incentive for a club in Alaska (they must exist) to apply for a regional race.

I remember region 2 is insanely big. Conversations with John Lee (Queens Off Roaders) way back in the 90s had a lot of this complaint mixed into the regional race.

I just dunno. Nobody really wants to travel these days. Kids stay at home with their parents til they're 26 FFS.

So smaller regions might make for bigger horizons.

If ROAR was state oriented, then it might be easier to qualify for National races, and have more people proportionally.

Just a bit outside the box, but something else to think on.

Victor Vector
Interesting topic. The current administration decided to realign the Regions. I think that they do need to be aligned. However, in typical fashion, they did it blindly and did not speak with the Region Directors to get there input about it. Now, it is worse than before. Great job.

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Old 10-27-2006, 07:02 PM   #233
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51 states (52 if you include England) Some could be northed and southed, some could be easted and wested. Could end up with 101 regional directors. Now there's a route for democracy !!

Maybe some means of funding region winners to the national races from the proceeds of the regional. And nationals having new definition to balance ratios of sponsored drivers to club racers.

Lots of funny pockets here that need figuring out.

I love all our local heroes and I admire all the national champs we have in the NW. We need a way to make 3rd place in the C main mean something. Pisses me off big time when these whiney sponsored racers don't race their B main places. Something bigtime wrong with that.
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:05 PM   #234
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Use the Sports Car Club of America as a model, they have divisions and numerous regions within them.
They have been around for a long time and are very sucsessful.
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:13 PM   #235
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SCCA has their share of problems too. Cost and relative benefit are the big points. (Surprise huh.) If there wasn't the insurance factor they could have been in trouble long time ago.
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:19 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
Not sure how that applies Ritchie. FW is, I'm sure, self-insuring their races as they are a business entity.

I am also unaware of any qualification standard for attending Regionals nor was I aware one was being proposed. I'd be very interested in clarification of this as well.

Scottrik
For whom the odds of qualifying for Nats is pretty slim, but likes the idea anyway.
sorry i guess i didn't explain it fully, right now there is no qualifing for regionals or nationals, just show up, the nationals is held first which makes the regional meaninless. we were discussing changing this to the other way around, were you quailiy for both..

as far as FW is concerned, the races and the business are not connected except that the business is a sponser of the races, the races are held by members of the fw racing club. not sure of the insurance stuff.

see you at the track, and i will work on helping you out so you can qualify, hope your note oppose to running silver can, (sorry just a local joke)
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:19 PM   #237
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They do know how to run races, thiere Nat championship last week had 680+ cars running.

Something for ROAR to look at, get some new ideas
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:57 PM   #238
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[QUOTE=Scottrik]
2) I'm not sure about a ROAR-owned facility. AMA, of which I am also a member, has a member-owned facility of which I am similarly skeptical. Great benefit to those who live in the general region but of, at best, questionable utility to the majority of members.

I think having a roar owned track would be great for all member's in the long run. It will be an asset that would generate additional funds and provide a track to a section of the country that doesn't have a perm track.
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Old 10-27-2006, 08:05 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
I think having a roar owned track would be great for all member's in the long run. It will be an asset that would generate additional funds and provide a track to a section of the country that doesn't have a perm track.
Perhaps, but it also creates ongoing expense in the form of maintenance and to at least some minimal degree staffing if it truly is to be of some benefit to the membership at large. I believe there are a lot of MUCH higher priorities before anything like this can be realistically considered.

Then again, which (of the many) section(s) of the country are you choosing that doesn't have a permanent facility? I'd wager that I'm located about as far as one can get from a "permanent" track as one can get in the CON US. We are definitely as far away from a "major population center" (defined as 500,000+ population) as is possible. Perhaps that makes E. Montana a prime location? Land is dirt cheap and wage rates are some of the lowest in the country.

Whaddaya think Eddie

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Old 10-27-2006, 08:16 PM   #240
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[QUOTE=Scottrik]Perhaps, but it also creates ongoing expense in the form of maintenance and to at least some minimal degree staffing if it truly is to be of some benefit to the membership at large. I believe there are a lot of MUCH higher priorities before anything like this can be realistically considered.



I was thinking that the track would charge Racers just like any other roar affiliated track. The only difference would be that this would be roar owned and operated with profits to be determined by ROAR. Nothing is entirely free.
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