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Old 10-11-2006, 02:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliberX
Great thread!

The bodies - they don't do much for me, but the handling and enjoyment of carving a nice turn overcomes that for me. Folks need to relate to the cars, the bodies are alien lookin' and the suspension is counterintuitive. I feel that these two factors are great contributing factors.

Please realise that I've only been in RC cars for about a year - so my opinions could be out to lunch.
To me the GTP/Can Am cars are true representatives of what True Race cars are, along with F1/Champ.

The current crop of TC's are way overengineered.... Being married to an EE and starting my education in ME I know how well an engineer can screw up the simplist things sometimes...

Look at the chassis's that MLP is turning out, they represent the direction we should be going. Even the revo is a good example. The shocks we use now are way oversized, we should be using socks like the AE's that come on the 12th scales... You could loose the enormous shock towers and run more aerodynamic bodies.

Being a newbie, it's the guys like you we need to introduce to pan cars to bring them back...
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:15 PM   #32
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Will 10th pancar make a comeback?
Well it does at least here in Holland and the Wetsern part of Germany where I race.
We had 23 modified pancars at this summer season's last race.

Is pancar better than touring?
Everybody must find that out for himself. Fact is that you don't need a fresh car every season to be competitive, nor the latest batteries or motors.
I have run both TC, 12th scale and 10th pancar.
By far 10th pancar is the least expensive, and most fun for me.
TC running costs are extreme, and now even come near to 1/8th nitro onroad running cost.
12th scale is a bit less expensive but near 10th pancar.

Is a 10th pancar easier to set up?
Hell yeah. No doubt here!

Do all pancars designs look alike? Just go through the pictures of the last season's races.
http://lemans.mijnalbums.nl/

Is a 10th pancar faster than a TC?
With a similar driver on a similar track my money is on the pancar....

Fastest laptime of Jilles Groskamp on my home track: 16.1
My fastest laptime: 15.5 (and I dare not compare my driving skill to his)
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:41 PM   #33
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To me the GTP/Can Am cars are true representatives of what True Race cars are, along with F1/Champ.
I agree, but for me the GTP style body looses its appeal when scaled down. However, regardless of the visual appeal, the point I am trying to make is that I see these classes as "aquired" taste. So the question is how to make the appealing to the Joe Everyone. I don't have the answer to that question, however, understanding why the majority of new racers gravitate to TC's would be the first step.

Can a 1/10th pan car be run decently with more of a TC type body with similar performance?

Are there good, simple, well written reference to set-up a la Hudy for pan's?
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Old 10-11-2006, 06:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliberX
I agree, but for me the GTP style body looses its appeal when scaled down. However, regardless of the visual appeal, the point I am trying to make is that I see these classes as "aquired" taste. So the question is how to make the appealing to the Joe Everyone. I don't have the answer to that question, however, understanding why the majority of new racers gravitate to TC's would be the first step.

Can a 1/10th pan car be run decently with more of a TC type body with similar performance?

Are there good, simple, well written reference to set-up a la Hudy for pan's?

YES!!!!
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Pancar?-dsc01108.sized.jpg   Pancar?-dsc01110.sized.jpg  
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:27 PM   #35
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Even old pancars are still fast! To me that is the most versatile car ever built for many reasons. It's a shame people tend to wander the way they do when something else comes out. You can buy one used for next to nothing and go VERY fast with it. I have several and with one car and a tire/body change it is a GTP road course car, A dragster, Hot rod, Touring car, Nascar, and my favorite, a superfast dirt oval car. I hate that this class all but died on the dirt. It was cheap speed and put many a nitro truck to shame with just a stock motor on laptimes. We just finished an F1 series here and allowed people to use the pancars with an F1 or Indy body and it worked out great! In the 4-cell F1 class an associated 10L took that series win with a car he gave $25 for not counting the new body. I am sure he will use it again next year because of the very low maintenence. He say's he likes it because it needs about as much attention as a frisbee. I hope they come back, there are so many of them in closets around the country that maybe tracks should just offer the class. That's all it would take to get them back out there again.
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:43 PM   #36
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Sorry but pancars are never going to be a bigger seller.There is no reason for anyone but the hardcore racers to buy them. They can't be run on the street and from an average Joe stand point a TT01 or a Traxxas 4tec is tons more interesting. Sure the top TCs might be expensive and perhaps unnecessarily complex. However people see it and want it even if it's never going to be raced because it looks fancy and they can relate some what back to real cars. Same reason people want Patek and Rolex over a Timex. It also provides a halo effect for the rest of the manufactuer's range, hence justifying development costs.

Essentially to someone new to get to a purchase of a pancar you will have 4 steps.
1. Interested in a RC car
2. Chooses an onroad car.
3. Tries onroad car racing and liked it.
4. Tries pancar.

Where as a TC all you need to do is for someone to look at box art.
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretsg
Sorry but pancars are never going to be a bigger seller.There is no reason for anyone but the hardcore racers to buy them. They can't be run on the street and from an average Joe stand point a TT01 or a Traxxas 4tec is tons more interesting. Sure the top TCs might be expensive and perhaps unnecessarily complex. However people see it and want it even if it's never going to be raced because it looks fancy and they can relate some what back to real cars. Same reason people want Patek and Rolex over a Timex. It also provides a halo effect for the rest of the manufactuer's range, hence justifying development costs.

Essentially to someone new to get to a purchase of a pancar you will have 4 steps.
1. Interested in a RC car
2. Chooses an onroad car.
3. Tries onroad car racing and liked it.
4. Tries pancar.

Where as a TC all you need to do is for someone to look at box art.
Sorry but with the exception of the cars you mentioned and the TC4 Tub there are no TC's that can be run on the street anymore either. You can try to race a 4tec, it's not going to do so well... You can take a 20 year old Bolink and spank Xrays all over the track...

If some people get their way and make TC's 4 cell you will see pancar make a big comeback quick.... 4 cells in an Pig of a TC or 4 Cells in a lightweight pan car.... Hmmmmm.....
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Old 10-11-2006, 08:49 PM   #38
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It doesn't matter if they don't run well on street. My point is they will generate the interest and the sale for the first time buyer. Ta-05/T2R/Cyclone S are still at a budget suitable for the beginner.

Track prowess is moot, if you are thinking about how a pancar will handle better than a TC then you've already commited to racing at least on an occasional lvl. Which means you are drawn into the RC scene and want try race onroad. The whole idea is pancar most likely draw from someone who's already into RC, which is a pool much smaller than what a TC has to work with.
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:02 PM   #39
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The TC pool is drying up real quick... You mention 3 possible cars that have zero support in most places.... The only hobby shops that carry Xray or (high end) Tamiya are one's that already cater to the racers. My LHS carries Xray parts only because we (the racers) requested them to. The only 2 cars a newbie can go in and buy to start out with are the 4tec or the TC4 RTR. The 4tec has no hope to be hopped up and raced competitively and the TC4 is about to be replaced... Personally, I still recomend a TC3 to people just starting out... Once the 4 cell crowd gets their way you won't be seeing much in the way of new people entering on road racing...
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:17 PM   #40
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Who knows what 4 cell will do for TC. I kinda of doubt manufactuers will overhaul everything in their line up to cater to the racers. Maybe 6 cells will be the basher and 4 cells will be the top dogs. It still doesn't eliminated the hassle of matched cells, charging tech and battery care. Personally I'm just not going to buy anything that can't be fitted with a LiPO
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:40 PM   #41
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i agree with secret if i understand his point correctly in that what he is saying is that people starting out simply look at what is on theshelf, see all shose shocks and belts and diffs and think " that is a sophisticated car" and interpret it as wow, that is a fast car or someone tells them that 4wd is easier to drive... (which it is) and though it is is borderline abuse, they are far easier to run in a dirty old street...


Here is the root of this thread.. how do we grow the pan car class and make a comeback? the answer is simple.. Dig them out, dust them off and show up at your local RACE TRACK.. ask if anyone is interested in running. maybe folks will dust them off or maybe folks will just want to try something new. regardless nothing sells a class like watching it run on the track.. fact is it's the perfect second class for someone to run.. cheap cars (used all day long) or even new, and very low maintenance and running cost..
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:53 AM   #42
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YES FINALLY!
secretsg: Great posts you totally understand the issue! That first time a guy walks into a store and sees a TC in a large box next to if he is lucky that the store has one in stock a pan car. The TC simply draws in the new buyer faster.

"Essentially to someone new to get to a purchase of a pancar you will have 4 steps.
1. Interested in a RC car
2. Chooses an onroad car.
3. Tries onroad car racing and liked it.
4. Tries pancar.
"

Its true the pan car racers currently come from old vets or excisting racers in other classes. Very rarely would a guy start off with a pan car.

Tally your right get them cars out. if they are not visiable on the track they will never attract excisting racers to convert. Thats step one, step two is the hard one, increas sales at the hobby shop or even get them to stock a car!
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:01 AM   #43
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Id love for pan cars to make a comeback ...

I still have my 10th scale RC10L3T and an RC10L2.5W (PRC Mod), I like them more then my sedans (Xray FK04 and T2). Unfortunately at my club there is only 2 racers that still have them ready to be raced (myself included) out of a potential pool of 40+ racers. My L3T currently as a Sedan body on it and handles like a dream come true on the track, I am not the best of driver but I ran my L3T last summer at one of our weeknights race meetings against a pool of stock sedans running foams for that particular race and I can tell ya that it ran on PAR with the top racers on the track, I had some beatened 3300's in it and a stock P2K2 motor, the car weighed 2.790lbs. Motor got a little warm ... that's all.

Some of my local racers here have been reading this thread, some of them have started to develop an interest in RWD 10th scale pan cars (mainly the RC10L3T because its 190mm and sedan bodies can be used on them) our club needs a minimum of 6 racers to have a class going officially.

IF the local interest develops itself once again I will surely help get that racing class running once again for sure !

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Old 10-12-2006, 06:23 AM   #44
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Joel, Buddy, you know where I stand on this subject. I can surely get at least ONE local hobbyshop to bring in an L3T ... but ill try to get some used ones first.

SecretSG you are correct :

"Essentially to someone new to get to a purchase of a pancar you will have 4 steps.
1. Interested in a RC car
2. Chooses an onroad car.
3. Tries onroad car racing and liked it.
4. Tries pancar.

Thats what I am seeing happening here at my local club. (Slowly)

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Old 10-12-2006, 06:53 AM   #45
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you won't get the l3t in stock as associated officially quit making it... and some parts are hard to get like chassis and right diff hub.. that said the pantoura is a 190mm car asn is the corally cct, and darkside motorsports is releasing a gorgeous new adjustable width car soon (see the pan car thread in the oval section for pics..) and that's just the 190mm cars.. associated still will make the l2 (actually the better onroad car but 235mm) corally has the c10x and several others like hyperdrive also have wide cars....
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