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Old 10-10-2006, 01:46 PM   #16
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Video with discussion Narrow Pan vs Nitro

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...eo#post2683485


Video with discussion Wide Pan vs Touring


http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2710193&highlight=video#post27101 93

Now here are a couple more reasons for a revival of pan cars. In the South USA (hot as hell) pan cars don't eat the brushless motors. The brushless speed controls don't catch fire. You get huge runtime. The motors don't thermally shutdown. I got 500 minutes of runtime before my 4.5R needed a front bearing. That's all the maintenance it needed. The touring car had the brushless stuff constantly in service. Finally the speed control caught fire! The pan cars do fairly well on a rough track like the one I run on. Ride height 6.5 mm at the back. You can make it go plenty fast even when its a little dirty. Top speed is in the 60 mph range on a 180 foot straight. Thats pretty exhilirating on every lap. You can achieve this even when its dusty with some side dams on the car.

And now I have found a wide pan McAllister Touring car Body which is lower left on the linked page.

http://www.mcallisterracing.com/racing/page10.html

And be sure to check out the Pantoura, 1/10 pan thread for more discussion.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-10-2006 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:01 PM   #17
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Hey TallyRC - I'll trade you my mint condition "F1 of RC world" 10L pan car for every "Honda Civic" you got.
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:15 PM   #18
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my civic is an xray t2 wtih BMI asphalt chassis setup and a GTB 5.5... i was pulling withing 1.5 seconds per lap on my first day with my pan car still running dryrotted rear green tires on ashpalt 6 cells with a stock motor and a radio without trims or epa adjustments... i honeslty think some people are afraid of the fact that pan cars require a bit more driving skill and resent that fact that they are so simple yet relentlessly fast compared to tourers.. it's like they are mad that they are so simple yet faster.. as far as track prep goes, pretty good results can be had by just blowing off the track really well so long as there are no MAJOR pot holes or cracks or jumps... the same stuff upsets my tourer these days anyhow...
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:12 PM   #19
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I think my points are missed totally when it comes to cost vs value, you cannot on one hand quote the absolute low end price of a pan car then tack on 300$ to a 400$ touring car and say the pan car is better value. I wont argue that a pan car is less expencive to buy, Both chassis require all the same start up gear so never mind quoting what esc,servo tires ect ect.

Right now from speedtech you can get: 12l-$170 crc,cefx and yokomo put you in the 220-330$ range(for a small plate of graphite and 8 bearings!) Vs $370 to $420 for xray,tamiya,corrally ect most under $400. No $700 TC there. This is comparing chassis to chassis only both forms require all the extra gear to go racing. So there they are equal. My point is what u get for your money is more in a TC vs an pan. Im not saying one is better or worse then the other but just in raw material or pound of stuff for the dollar the TC comes out better in terms of value.


The problem is not people being afraid but it doesnt help that this discussion goes in to class bashing. Who cares wich is faster, there both fast in different ways. IT dont matter how fast if one class has 50 entries and the other has 5 entries does it really matter that the 5 cars are faster then the other 50? IF your not getting to race competativly? For me i would race tyco cars if thats what 50+racers showed up to race. The issues are not cost. Racing cost money so if you spend 250 for a pan vs 400 for a tc your not done spending. So you cant sell it as a cheaper form of racing as the same cost are associated with racing, tires,motors,batteries, ect ect... Initial chassis cost is lower.

Anyway if my point is finally understood lets get back to addressing the issue. Will or how will pan car make a comeback? How about some ideas and positive thoughts on it? I dont need to see videos of a pan beating a TC what the point? I can show a civic beat a mustang!! Does it matter? They dont race together typically anyway.

Suggestions:
-there needs to be a RTR in hobby shops
-we need more major players producing them(traxxas,xray,tamiya,AE,losi,hpi,ect ect)The guys with the bucks
-prices need to drop on kits
-racing series with TC bodies need to be promoted(so u can catch the eye of the current TC Racers and bashers
-Drift kits should have been released with pan chassis(cheaper and easy to make drift)
-4 cell for sure, most cant handle 6 cells and joe-newbie is definatly not ready for it
-new designs(make them with colored chasssis to catch peoples eye)
-better equipt kits(include the tires and body,include more alloy bits for the front end and keep the costs as is or lower.
-include all nessasary shims and spacers needed to adjust ride height
-invent a better rear end and front end to make ride hieght changes quicker and easier. Looking for rear pod shims in my tool box is a treat installing them upside down is worse...
-dont sell the class by bashing another
-dont say its faster then a TC when its not a TC
-...........................
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:54 PM   #20
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Well since you belabor the cost issue. I'll mention it. My CRC chassis cost $159. You are well equiped with crash parts if you buy lower front arms ($3.59) and lower Rear Pod Plate ($13) These are the only parts that have broken from crashes. On the Losi JRXS I spent about $200 just on crash parts based on my extensive experience with touring cars to insure I could run the whole race with the car, without hobby shop support on most of the pieces. Its hard to support so many flavors of cars. I probably paid double the purchase price on the JRXS. Most double plate chassis that I have observed will start to give you tweak problems in 1 or two months. Where is the value in that. There are just way too many mating parts that need to be kept in alignment. I wish they would go back to well designed molded chassis. I have a suspicion that one type of rear tire and two types of front tires are going to work year round on the pan car. I have a whole selction of heat ranges on the rubber tires. Hundreds of dollars worth.

It would be a trivial task for a manufacturer to offer a ready to run pan. I agree that each car has its place. Touring car motors don't really like long outdoor tracks in hot weather. That is a major advantage of the pan car in my view.
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:28 PM   #21
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the most expensive pan car goes for around 359.00... this is a fully loaded, every option right out of the box..

Pan cars are generally more expensive side by side as far as what you get, but 99% of the pan car makers are very small companies with very high overhead.. Big sedan companies have lower overhead, and in general are very large companies when compared.. A pan car company isnt gong to make a run of 5000 cars to cut down on pricing.. they will never sell them all, and be stuck with tons of parts causing a huge loss for them..

i would love to see 10th scale pan come back.. id be on it.. ive been an oval racer for 15+ years.. i did some sedan for a few years to.. Right now im doing or trying to find time to do 12th scale.. If we see it at a big race agan, maybe it will start an up-trend..
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:30 PM   #22
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I have raced all 3(1/10/and1/12/pan and1/10 touring) classes and would still be racing 1/10 pan car if it existed. There are just so many adjustments on a pancar. With the modern day touring cars you can dial yourself right off the track with suspension and tires. Minimal adjustments on a typical 10L style car. Someone said 1/12 is faster than 1/10!! Where? Modified 1/10 with 6 cells were and are ballastic. With the ground effects that GTP style bodies have....the cars are easier not harder to drive. Tires were basically 3 to 4 compounds. Pancar was caught in the transition of classes duriing the 90's.....Tamiya and HPI touring cars caught fire and now you have modern day touring cars that don't last a year before the manufacturers are releasing new versions or hopped up versions for many to drop another $400.00 to get the latest....when they never even mastered the last chassis. Remember German Touring Car(DTM) on (SpeedVision) yes before they became NASCARChannel.....is what got the touring class going. Now you can't even watch that series or any touring series.....I don't consider that boring series that Speed shows a legitimate touring series. IMSA when in it's heyday is another reason why GTP class was popular back in the day. If Pancar would make a comback.....I would certainly race it. That's why I have a race ready 10L2 sitting on the shelf!!
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Old 10-10-2006, 11:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyrc
joel... an xray is $400 a factory team tc4 is/was $350... an rc10L2 is $164 as is the pantoura... also i guess value is in the eye of the beholder.. to me cheaper is cheaper.. for about half the price of an xray, i can smoke one with less maintenance and operational cost.. further
Bring your 1/10th pan car on to a track that has some "good"X-rays and drivers and you will be 2 laps down.....
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:55 AM   #24
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Well i guess this will just stay as a frindge class of guys bashing TC in some hope that if you say your great that the 80% of the racing scene(TC) will just all of a sudden convert to pan because u all say they are so great..

Look i have raced everything(10th,12thpan,nitrosedan,nitro trucks,TC,buggiesect) im not against pan, im simplying pointing out the initial low value in the initial purachase and suggesting what the class needs to grow and bring back guys like me that used to race the class back before touring cars. All the arguements about the pan being cheaper to run is true they hardly ever break, but u know what i 100% enjoy racing my touring car and it rarely break parts... I love everthing about hte touring car scene, the fancy chassis, the tires, the shocks all the adjustments, the constant challenge of setup and driving on the edge of grip... If you want pan to grow u need to show it off in a positive light not use its positives as weapons against touring cars and other classes.


Promote the PAN but dont bash the TC

From my reading here so far:
-pans are faster
-pans are cheaper
-pan drivers like to attack other classes
-no one is racing pan

IT would be nice to see a post other then mine actually suggesting ways to make pan grow instead of examples of how u spend more on your tc then your pan, or how u once beat a TC in a practice race. None of that matters, racers will spend what ever it takes to go racing. That initial 100-200 price difference is long forgotten a year into any new racers life....
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:15 AM   #25
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no one is attempting to "bash" TC. people wanted to hear ways to promote pan, and several of them are the FACTS that pans are faster than tc's, pans are cheaper to buy, and pans are cheaper to race (yes they are even easier on batteries motots parts and tires). all of these facts are some of the MANY gripes we all read about TC's on the TC threads.. we all read how everybody wants to control costs in racing. keep our esc's from frying (read the gazillion 4 cell touring threads and posts) and the ten million posts on how are we going to grow our hobby in general (not just one class) and many people who have raced pancar believe that it is a viable option and answer to many of these questions... it's not meant as an attack.. joel, i like many of your ideas including the RTR idea and the "gussying" up the kits with "bling" as they say.. maybe bolink will think like this.. and impresme, was that a joke?
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Last edited by tallyrc; 10-11-2006 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:32 AM   #26
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Then lets move forward, we established the cost savings over the long haul... Now lets promote or grow the class.

Cost is always a funny issue(this is a side rant) The same guys in any class the complain about costs are often the guys with the most toys and least driving skills, im a beleiver in spec racing personally. The hobby in general needs to help guys with reality checks. Just because chassis brand xyz drops a new chassis every 6 to 12months does not mean we have to have it. ITs a tuff topic cuz companies want to make money and everyone wants the newest gear, but its often fustrating to watch local club racers blame there lack of success on the track on there lack of bleeding edge cells and chassis. I see it time and time againt that guys that acutally pracitce and work on there cars do well all the time without buying new cars every 6-12 months. Anyway this off the pan car topic but its a general hobby issue that bugs me. The image of RC right now is buy buy buy and release release release. Maybe if more magazines dedicated pages to show racers how to race withing there budgets or show that a car does race competativly for more then 6 months we could keep racers that have brain washed themselves into thinking they are slow because they dont have...... the newest gear.

I remember back in the day racing oval. There was never the desire to be buying new cars like today, im guilty im adicted to rc and always want the latest, but i realize there has to be a balance. WE can have it all. The biggest thing back in the day was having good battereis and motors, i honestly did not drool over new hopups and chassis back then, perhaps it was the lack of the internet? LOL ITs funny how now we get a glimpsof new chassis due out in a month and guys loose there f'n minds roaming the internet looking for the car to release in other countries so they can have it. Getting mad that they cant have it yesterday. We live in a different world then we did when pan cars ruled the rc world

I actually really miss our short track oval we used to race on 3-4 second laps was kool
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme
Bring your 1/10th pan car on to a track that has some "good"X-rays and drivers and you will be 2 laps down.....

I doubt it!!! Stock pan car against stock tc......my money goes on the pancar.
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:46 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
-dont say its faster then a TC when its not a TC
My RC10L3T definitely IS a TC!


Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme
Bring your 1/10th pan car on to a track that has some "good"X-rays and drivers and you will be 2 laps down.....
Guess you've never witnessed a TC get out accellerated and outcornered by a Pan Car....


Quote:
Originally Posted by SRAD
I doubt it!!! Stock pan car against stock tc......my money goes on the pancar.
I'll put my money on 19 turn Pan Car against Open Mod TC!!!
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
The image of RC right now is buy buy buy and release release release. Maybe if more magazines dedicated pages to show racers how to race withing there budgets or show that a car does race competativly for more then 6 months we could keep racers that have brain washed themselves into thinking they are slow because they dont have...... the newest gear.
This is more true then most people realize.

And because of this it further supports a movement for Pan Cars. With pan cars you can have a new car everymonth and customers could probably buy the new parts and update there car to the latest spec. In TC (which I have raced for the last 10 years) A new car mean several new parts that are not compatible with the old so you virtually chuck the old car and are almost forced to run the new car. Even skipping every other cycle you are still buying a completley new chassis annualy. TC parts are cheaper to buy as a kit where as Pan Car parts seem to be the same price as seperate parts. The biggest issue with Pan Cars is the price is truly not the same scale as TC's but if there numbers increased in sales there is no reason why a 1:10 pan style car could not retail for under $100.
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:49 AM   #30
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Great thread!

As a newbie, I started with TC. My club got a small burp of 1/12th interest and some used stuff was being sold for $50.

I picked one up and tried it. I prefre driving 1/12th Pan over TC. I have been thinking and wondering why pan is not "the" class, and I have the following to offer:

From my limited point of view its about the image. TC's are popular for the same reason monster trucks are popular - people can relate to them. Coming from the 1:1 circle track racing scene, I can somewhat understand a TC. Pan is alien like to me. I love it, but I don't understand it. There is a lack of reference material for setup. I have been looking high and low for a HUDY like setup chart available for TC but cannot find anything.

The bodies - they don't do much for me, but the handling and enjoyment of carving a nice turn overcomes that for me. Folks need to relate to the cars, the bodies are alien lookin' and the suspension is counterintuitive. I feel that these two factors are great contributing factors.

Please realise that I've only been in RC cars for about a year - so my opinions could be out to lunch.
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