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Old 10-16-2006, 09:52 AM   #91
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Have to stop the Oval comparison here... Oval is a "Race only" class and if you don't hit anything is an accelerate once class....
Sorry but that is incorrect. A lot of the tracks up north are pretty much two hairpin turns where even the stock guys have to lift. The Snowbirds track is considered mid size and the stock guys still let off to get into the corners.

The real comparison you can look at between oval and road course is motor wear. Oval runs at a higher sustained amp draw than road course and their motors look way better than ours after a run.

Like I said...like it or not this is pretty much a done deal. Japan has done it. EFRA and IFMAR are trying to get the rules done for 2007 but if not it they will go 4 cell for sure in 2008.

There is already one major US race in 2007 that will run 4 cell and when IFMAR goes 4 cell everyone else will switch too.

If you don't like it you can always quit and try paintball, online gaming or knitting. I'll still be racing when you come back in a year or two to tell you I told you it would work out fine.

Don't be afraid of change....
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:03 AM   #92
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this whole 4 cell switch seems to be an effort to delay lipo into the racing market more than anything. People have been burning up speed controls and mod motors for years now and it doesn't surprise that there is a big push for it all of a sudden with lipo's popping up more.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:05 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Francis M.
this whole 4 cell switch seems to be an effort to delay lipo into the racing market more than anything. People have been burning up speed controls and mod motors for years now and it doesn't surprise that there is a big push for it all of a sudden with lipo's popping up more.
It has NOTHING to do with Lipo technology....Thats the typical narrow minded Lipo fanatic reasoning. IT has to do with what people have been saying for the past 3-4 years....Slow down the cars as they are too fast. "Newbies" cant even attempt to drive a STOCK TC much less any thing above that!! Maybe thats the real reason we dont see to many "newbies" stick in this hobby longer....

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Old 10-16-2006, 10:07 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Sorry but that is incorrect. A lot of the tracks up north are pretty much two hairpin turns where even the stock guys have to lift. The Snowbirds track is considered mid size and the stock guys still let off to get into the corners.

The real comparison you can look at between oval and road course is motor wear. Oval runs at a higher sustained amp draw than road course and their motors look way better than ours after a run.

Like I said...like it or not this is pretty much a done deal. Japan has done it. EFRA and IFMAR are trying to get the rules done for 2007 but if not it they will go 4 cell for sure in 2008.

There is already one major US race in 2007 that will run 4 cell and when IFMAR goes 4 cell everyone else will switch too.

If you don't like it you can always quit and try paintball, online gaming or knitting. I'll still be racing when you come back in a year or two to tell you I told you it would work out fine.

Don't be afraid of change....
I'm positive that 4 cell will ultimately kill my Local Track. We've had a severe decline and we're hoping that the few newbies with their RTR's and 6 cell sport packs stick it out and get better...

You still keep forgetting that Oval is a Pan Car, much lighter and direct drive....

This is not my ONLY hobby and actually I'm am very involved in racing Real Cars although an injury keeps me from driving...

Plus, I also Fly Helis and Airplanes and race Off road... believe me, I've got way too many hobbies.... Maybe leaving TC would be a good thing... Pretty much only running 12th scale anyway....


Such a shame that the industy is going to cater to the cry babies and castrate themselves.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:07 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Like I said...like it or not this is pretty much a done deal. Japan has done it. EFRA and IFMAR are trying to get the rules done for 2007 but if not it they will go 4 cell for sure in 2008.

There is already one major US race in 2007 that will run 4 cell and when IFMAR goes 4 cell everyone else will switch too.
This a shame considering there has been very little 4-cell testing and virtually no testing in actual competition. The little testing that has been done has proven that run time becomes a concern. At least the latest NiMH batteries do not lose run time after a few cycles.

Japan also went to 8 minute touring for a short time. Good thing EFRA, IFMAR, ROAR, and the one major US race did not adopt that rule just because Japan did.

Touring car will only become an even more specialized segment of the hobby while technology progresses with LiPo (and other batt technology). There are many comparisons made to oval racing and how 4-cell "saved" it. Well if TC becomes as popular (obscure is a better description) as oval, I would not consider it a good thing.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:09 AM   #96
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is it the speed or the extra equipment the Noob see's everyone hauling
around. If speed is such an issue all you / manufacturer's can start a 30 turn stock class.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:15 AM   #97
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It has NOTHING to do with Lipo technology....Thats the typical narrow minded Lipo fanatic reasoning. IT has to do with what people have been saying for the past 3-4 years....Slow down the cars as they are too fast. "Newbies" cant even attempt to drive a STOCK TC much less any thing above that!! Maybe thats the real reason we dont see to many "newbies" stick in this hobby longer....

EA
It is an effort to eliminate LiPo from the equation.

We can slow down the cars as is. How many clubs/tracks run a Mabuchi sedan class? Or even a 4-cell stock class? I bet you can count them on one hand. My guess is that if there was a demand for a slower classes, they would exist.

Going to 4-cell WILL prevent ESC and motor failures. It WILL NOT eliminate one-run brushes. And it WILL cause run time problems (in modified) where it will make brushless motors a must have item.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:19 AM   #98
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BTW....

My PAN CAR on 6 Cells with a 19 Turn is FASTER than a 7 turn MODIFIED TOURING CAR!!!!!!
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:34 AM   #99
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I'm still not clear on why. If you're saying we need to go slower, can't that be accomplished with slower motors and battery limitations? If you're saying we should do it to embrace newcomers, then we need to start by reducing the barrier of entry into competitive racing with all the extra crap people feel they need.

Maybe I'm blinded by the light, but this really does seem like a desperation move to keep NiMH and brushed motors relevant. I'm sure it works okay, but again, why this? How is this better for newcomers? They're still going to feel like they need mountains of crap to be competitive after a trip to the track, surrounded by guys with mountains of chargers and other bloated gear.
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Old 10-16-2006, 12:09 PM   #100
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BTW....

My PAN CAR on 6 Cells with a 19 Turn is FASTER than a 7 turn MODIFIED TOURING CAR!!!!!!
I hope so the car is almost half the weight
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Old 10-16-2006, 12:10 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
BTW....

My PAN CAR on 6 Cells with a 19 Turn is FASTER than a 7 turn MODIFIED TOURING CAR!!!!!!
I bet my 7 series has better A/C than your Chevy
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Old 10-16-2006, 12:34 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Sorry but that is incorrect. A lot of the tracks up north are pretty much two hairpin turns where even the stock guys have to lift. The Snowbirds track is considered mid size and the stock guys still let off to get into the corners.

The real comparison you can look at between oval and road course is motor wear. Oval runs at a higher sustained amp draw than road course and their motors look way better than ours after a run.

Like I said...like it or not this is pretty much a done deal. Japan has done it. EFRA and IFMAR are trying to get the rules done for 2007 but if not it they will go 4 cell for sure in 2008.

There is already one major US race in 2007 that will run 4 cell and when IFMAR goes 4 cell everyone else will switch too.

If you don't like it you can always quit and try paintball, online gaming or knitting. I'll still be racing when you come back in a year or two to tell you I told you it would work out fine.

Don't be afraid of change....

Hmm

Japan has not done it yet. I remember for last year the JRMCA was on 8 minutes and everyone went, let's all of us go 8 minutes racing. Has it happened ? NO.

Let's remember that the JRMCA is a ONE OFF race that crowns the Japanese champion, it does not represent what the japanese market is running.

As for EFRA, it is not a done deal yet, nor is it here in the UK. I personally tried it and to be honest don't see the point of it. My motor came as hot as on 6 cells and I has similar speed to what my 19T is, only with 6 cell 19T, my car was actually handling, whereas with 4-cells it lost all steering (pack was in centered position to try and keep an even f/r balance).

Also I spoke to the WC this week end and his thoughts were that going to 6 minutes will prevent from blowing motors up, as this is the only reason we're talking about 4-cell. Remember 4-cell as a class is supposed to replace MODIFIED and has nothing to do with stock/19T. As this class is clearly not for beginners i don't even see the point of talking about beginners in this thread.
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Old 10-16-2006, 12:54 PM   #103
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If there is such a concern with the speed that we are getting our TC's to go - why don't we just limit the minimal turns that our motors can be... i.e. no less then a 10 turn? Doesn't one of the organizations already do this?

All-be-it the idea to have this class help hold-off Li-Po batteries does make sense, is it not the wrong approach? Are we not already complaining that LiPo's are too light for our chassis' - thus requiring a complete redesign of our cars (aside from the Losi) if we move in this direction ... is 4-cell racing not the asking same thing?

In all, personally, I am not in favour of 4-cell modified. Although I do not race the class at this point, I am planning to move up to mod for at least one race this year - moving to 4-cell will keep me in 19 turn for sure.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:31 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by duckman996
If there is such a concern with the speed that we are getting our TC's to go - why don't we just limit the minimal turns that our motors can be... i.e. no less then a 10 turn? Doesn't one of the organizations already do this?

All-be-it the idea to have this class help hold-off Li-Po batteries does make sense, is it not the wrong approach? Are we not already complaining that LiPo's are too light for our chassis' - thus requiring a complete redesign of our cars (aside from the Losi) if we move in this direction ... is 4-cell racing not the asking same thing?

In all, personally, I am not in favour of 4-cell modified. Although I do not race the class at this point, I am planning to move up to mod for at least one race this year - moving to 4-cell will keep me in 19 turn for sure.
O guess you are pretty new to R/C racing. The US (10T) and Europe (12T) tried this 2 years ago. It didnt work. We would just crank up the timing on the motors and gear them to the moon so they were just as fast as 8 and 7 turns. We really fried those motors.
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Old 10-16-2006, 01:42 PM   #105
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If this is TRUELY about the newbies then I say change the stock motor spec to 35 turns and be done with it. If we let the meek lead us into this we will all be sorry.

Answer the most popular question....how fast is this car....oh...its slower than that 4Tec over there with a $20 battery pack, but it is much more expensive.... Yeah, that will work......(please feel the sarcasm.....)
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