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Old 10-08-2006, 12:58 PM   #16
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i`ll shut up then
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Old 10-08-2006, 01:22 PM   #17
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Longer races will only make the problem worse. They tried it in Japan last year and it was horrible. I remember watching a video from the japan nats and you could hear the cars over-reving all the way down the straight and watching motors break (wires shift, loosing balance, etc). And you think new tires make a difference now

Harder tires; this will only seperate the field further. The faster guys will be even faster and the slower guys will be even slower. Everytime I go to a club race I see so many new racers struggle with traction. They break their car over and over again to the point of frustration and quiting. It's not fun driving a loose race car and this isn't the answer either; although it does help from killing motors....Prime example of this not working is when Losi tried to push the blue off-road tires. After a year of struggling with them, racers stopped supporting any race that used them...That tire pretty much killed one of the biggest races in the world, The Winterchamps in Tampa.

The cars are to fast and something needs to be done! I'm not saying I'm for or against 4-cell, just something needs to be done!!!
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Old 10-08-2006, 02:28 PM   #18
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either
voltage class
or voltage regulater
reason i can come up with these `Idea`s` is because there is a UK forum that has pages of this stuff to sort out the future of touring cars in the uk
And it`s really confusing trying to follow it ,with so many racers/non racers/Dads all piping in with there `idea`s`

all sorts of idea`s have come up
mainly to save expense & wear & tear & tone down the speed
there are guy`s here using 4 cell now , some with hidden aganda`s ,other`s just to see if it`s viable
But there are so many racers that don`t want to know about 4 cell

Q 4 cell/mod class to replace ?? which class
is 27t going or staying ,
is 19t going or staying
is mod going or staying
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Old 10-08-2006, 03:10 PM   #19
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The majority of countries belonging to EFRA (European Federation of Radio Autos) do not have their own rule book. They use the EFRA rule book. They are trying to get a class that they feel is too expensive brought down in cost by limiting the wear and tear on the cars, reducing the speeds and reducing the damage.

Many of these countries do not have a large RC market, and rely on small distributors who can only afford to bring in volume parts and cars. They can't access 12th, Off-Road or many of the gas classes, so TC is what they want to run. EFRA is one country one vote, so if enough countries want this, it will come.

The BRCA, or any EFRA country with its own rule book, can do as it wishes. At the BRCA AGM at the end of this month, they will answer Mr. Jolly's questions about other classes. As for the "what is this for" question, I hope this is answered above.

One thing is evident from the replies on the threads in the UK - if you haven't driven 4-cell TC, please refrain from posting any opinions. Everyone who has driven the class is full of praise - it isn't slow, it isn't too different from 6-cell, and it does save huge amounts of wear and tear on all the components in the car.

It is hugely cheaper than 19T and 27T because you don't have to tune the motor within an inch of its life, and keep buying the latest motor every time one comes out; and it isn't a battery class because you have more than enough run time. One thing is common to everyone who has tried the class - once you start to tune a car for 4-cell, it will be at least as quick around a lap as 6-cell, and it will be much more competitive in the turns due to less weight to stop, turn and accelerate.

I hope that a new rule for this thread will be observed - if you haven't run 4-cell you won't give us your unsupported and unfounded views in order to convince others that they shouldn't try a class you haven't tried!!
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Old 10-08-2006, 03:43 PM   #20
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I tested 4 cell mod at my club this morning.

Track: Fairly small indoor carpet club where stock is the main class. Racing 6 minute heats because numbers were low today.

Cells are are GP3300's which I bought as 6 cell packs from Hurricane about a year ago at least, and they're budget matched cells so nothing special.

Using a TC4 FT car. Only needed 21g weight on the battery side of the car to make it perfectly balanced left to right. Had the cells arranged as two sets of two (jump wire already on them from 12th scale). Had two cells as far back as possible then an empty cell slot, then another couple of cells. I think in total the car was around 1300g

In order to be comparable to a stock motor I initially used a 19t motor. I geared right up to a 6:1 (8:1 normally) but was losing probably about half a second over an 11 second lap. Motor was coming off the track only warm and I could run for 6 minutes without the cells dumping and then carry on for another couple of minutes more as they died. I then put in a Reedy Ti 12t motor which I bought from ebay for about 5 second hand for messing around with outdoors. I kept the timing low on 12 degrees and changed the gear ratio to 7.2:1 to compensate a bit for the extra pace. The car was now nearly spot on at stock pace. I think I had a little extra on the straights when the cells were fresh off the charger. Runtime still wasn't an issue and the motor was fairly hot to touch, but considerably cooler than normal. Maybe a 15t would be a good equivalent to stock when ran to its full potential (i.e best gear ratio, timing, new brushes etc).

To sum that up, I had no runtime or pace issues and motor temperature and wear was almost definately better. All my equipment worked fine. Servo speed was a little slower than normal because I'm still using a futaba standard receiver, but definately not enough to be a problem. I don't think 4 cells is the best solution for modified racing, but for 19t and stock where there are already limits in place, using 4 cells and a lower turn motor seems to be beneficial.



Also, whoever said using a modified motor would be much more expensive is plainly wrong IMO. you're losing the cost of 6 cells (around 45-60 in the uk) for an extra 20 on the motor. In addition to this u dont need to worry so much about skimming the comm every meeting or two and replacing brushes at 3 a time, plus you're less likely to ruin the motor by overheating magnets.
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Old 10-08-2006, 03:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
Q 4 cell/mod class to replace ?? which class
is 27t going or staying ,
is 19t going or staying
is mod going or staying
I think 4 cell modified should race alongside 27t and 19t with suitable limits in place for the time being. It should be to run at an equivalent speed to those 6 cell classes in the same way mod and brushless run together at most big races now. Modified though I think should stay as it is or change in a different way to solve its problems as 4 cells wont have the same effect when they start using 4 turn motors and so on. I think 4 cells is beneficial in classes where it can keep up, but I don't think we should sacrifice speed for it in modified.
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Old 10-08-2006, 05:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
so this will kill of the Tamiya starter cars for sure (they only take stick packs)
Won't make any difference to starter cars and remember, these rules will be for national level meetings, local clubs can already do whatever they want.

Quote:
If no motor limit for 4 cell , then the guy`s will run 4-5 turn motors instead
Probably will, but with the lower voltage they still can't generate the power that causes most of the problems.

As the cell voltages are slowly rising, some of the lower voltage will be clawed back over time, where-as if everything is left as is, there will be more problems with heat etc due to the voltages.

How many people had problems at the Worlds/Euro's etc with shutdowns from brushless and brushed systems.

Ask yourself why you don't run modified?

Maybe this will answer some of your own questions?

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Old 10-08-2006, 06:13 PM   #23
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4 Cells is not the way to go... We didn't even run TC at my local track today because we only had 5 people show up and only 3 out of the 5 had TC's so we all ran 1/12th....

This hobby is quickly declining and making TC's incompatable with the rest of the hobby is going to kill them even quicker.

Don't give me the Oval and 12th scale arguement because 999 out of 1000 newbies aren't going into their LHS to buy either....

As for runtime... I pulled my 12th scale off the track and dicharged my 4200's, I had at least 2200mah left... Could have run 16 minute races...

The way to stop blowing up things is Higher voltage and more winds....

There is more to this hobby than TC's, matter of fact TC's are still the babies....
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Old 10-08-2006, 06:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
4 Cells is not the way to go... We didn't even run TC at my local track today because we only had 5 people show up and only 3 out of the 5 had TC's so we all ran 1/12th....

This hobby is quickly declining and making TC's incompatable with the rest of the hobby is going to kill them even quicker.

Don't give me the Oval and 12th scale arguement because 999 out of 1000 newbies aren't going into their LHS to buy either....

As for runtime... I pulled my 12th scale off the track and dicharged my 4200's, I had at least 2200mah left... Could have run 16 minute races...

The way to stop blowing up things is Higher voltage and more winds....

There is more to this hobby than TC's, matter of fact TC's are still the babies....

You can almost bet that if Roar goes with 4 cell it will be for EVERYTHING....not just TC's. It would be Offroad as well.

ALso with your last statement do you think that if Roar/Ifmar/Efra do go to 4 cell racing that the manufactures will just stop making 6 cell packs?

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Old 10-08-2006, 07:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
You can almost bet that if Roar goes with 4 cell it will be for EVERYTHING....not just TC's. It would be Offroad as well.

ALso with your last statement do you think that if Roar/Ifmar/Efra do go to 4 cell racing that the manufactures will just stop making 6 cell packs?

EA

4 cell Stadium Truck will be real fun....

You go tell the kid who owns a stick pack car or an Emaxx that he can't run his 6 cell sport packs...

TC's are dying and it's not because of 6 cell mod...
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Old 10-08-2006, 07:53 PM   #26
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Cost of kits is whats killing TC. The days of buying a TC3 racer kit and being able to win are long gone.
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Old 10-08-2006, 08:15 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by DavidAlford
Cost of kits is whats killing TC. The days of buying a TC3 racer kit and being able to win are long gone.
Agreed....!

Its all about demand & supply.TC is getting so hot now a days, that manufacturers can charge a higher price for their top of the line.

If one day TC really 'dies' off, we'll start to see the price drop. Until then the price of top of line TC will start at the range we see now and going to get worse every passing year.
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins
Ask yourself why you don't run modified?

Maybe this will answer some of your own questions?

Skiddins
Tyre`s are to expensive & don`t last more then 2 run`s

wear rate on car is very bad (so much power(
And B i can`t drive that fast (this is why 27t class is very popular to most (it`s fast enough
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
4 cell Stadium Truck will be real fun....

You go tell the kid who owns a stick pack car or an Emaxx that he can't run his 6 cell sport packs...

TC's are dying and it's not because of 6 cell mod...
If it goes 4 cell offroad (that will diffiently Kill it off

club side is the same in the uk ,no `new` comers coming in so quite few club`s are struggling

doing 4 cell is not aimed at the club scene, this is for the BRCA events ,which the big boy`s do ,so when Euro`s or Worlds come round UK drivers are using the same stuff (4 cell)

Outer mongolia 1 vote
BRCA 1 vote
USA 1 vote
Planet Pluto 1 vote
@ Efra AGM (think this is how it is i think ,correct me if wrong ,but do it nicely
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Old 10-08-2006, 11:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins
Won't make any difference to starter cars and remember, these rules will be for national level meetings, local clubs can already do whatever they want.
so this is idea will bring in `new` comers (that are non excistent into this hobby & keep clubs going

For this idea to work it needs support from clubs to bring onboard ,

Guy`s who run 6 cell @ club & enjoy it won`t go 4 cell to have ago @ nat`s to see what`s it`s like (just another hurdle to keep new comers away

still not convinced what this change is for better or worse
certainley not helping clubs that`s for sure
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