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Old 10-17-2006, 05:17 PM   #181
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Cherry, I have never ever said I think sponsored guys should sit and race stock all the time...

What I said to you MANY times, but your brain power is to limited to retain and comprehend.....

I do not think we should be turning stock into a beginner class, cause its not, nor has ever been. Stock was created and designed to put more emphasis on driver than equipment (notice I said MORE, not ALL).....stock is a cheaper class to run, regardless of what anyone thinks.....it's not CHEAP to race by any means, but stock is definetely cheaper to run than modified.

If Joe blow racer wants to race stock his entire life and is content with that, then we should not be telling him he CAN'T. Pushing away dedicated racers who are enjoying themselves isn't going to help our retention any better than it is now.....you are trading a definite for a MAYBE....sounds stupid to me.

I am sorry, but guys are not quiting because they are losing to Jack Blow 50% off sponsored guy. Guys who supposedly quit over this, would of quit anyways....this is just the easy cop out.....

And honestly.....you have two guys racing stock forever.....one guy is loaded and can buy anything he wants, while the other is pinching pennies to stay in the hobby and managed to get a 50% off motor/battery deal to stay racing. How is the sponsored guy causing any more harm than the rich guy?

Better yet, what about guy a who buys everything from the shop at pretty much full retail, while guy b, who is a little more thrifty, buys everything online for hefty discounts or shops on the used forums to save money.....how is he any better than the 50 off guy or the rich guy?

Long and the short of it.....these 50% off discount guys have been around forever.....they are not the problem. The problem is there is a gazzillion other hobbies, the internet, etc.....and we are not doing a good job retaining these guys interests....we have created an system of trying to make it where everyone wins with sportsman classes, expert, etc......and its obvisiously not working.

That being said, I have never been a fan of fully sponsored guys running stock at local club races and such......none of my guys do it, but telling people who are actually spending money (regardless of them having these 50% off deals, being an online shopper or a rich guy) where they can and can't race isn't going to do anything to solve our retention problem. Saving $11 on a motor isn't making this massive difference....especially when a non-sponsored guy can buy a trinity stock of the same type from the hobby shop for the same price....

I suggested rules to make stock a privateer class on the national level and it was shot down.......

I must say though.....look at other similar racing sports like BMX, Moto Cross, etc....at the national level, regardless of class......a lot of people are sponsored.....and they seem to be doing just fine.....

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Old 10-17-2006, 06:51 PM   #182
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side note : I just thought I would post two cents here. I noticed while watching the IIC in vegas that the 19t foam guys were pulling just as fast or faster laps than mod rubber. Why well one because foams are faster on carpet, and as far as I am concerned on tarmac too. Just an observation that may trigger some thoughts.

I just wanted to also mention I strongly think and feel that BL should just become mandated, and should be the standard for Mod and Stock! You can argue this and that about brushed motors but the simple fact is that they require constant maintaince absolute attention must be given after every heat. Have you all figured out that that cost average joe racer trying to be fast in stock?

2-3 sets of brushes $12-$15 per race day
Lathe $100 plus
Misc motor supplies $5 per race day
entry fee for the day $10-$15 per race day
Food for the day $6-$10 per reace day
Gas to get to track 1-2 gal low end $5.00 per race day

thats almost 40 bucks in one day to race the equipment that cost over a thousand dollars. So if you tell me I can save some money by running BL than I am all for it.
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:21 PM   #183
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Wait, you want to mandate that everyone has to go out and buy a brushless motor and speedo just to race so you can save $10 a race day?

So people not only have to spend more money, they have to throw away all of their equipment because you say so?

Brushless motors have proven unreliable in touring car modified......they constantly blow up.

Brushless and Brushed should be up to the racer as a preference.....some people actually ENJOY working on their motors.....if you want to run brushless, go ahead....its 100% legal in modified and many tracks are allowing the stock versions.....and many have brushless only classes...

Awesome attitude.....I am sure tons of racers would love to jump at the chance to have buy brand new stuff and throw stuff away.......sure worked with required personal transponders....

Shoving things like brushless down people's throats is hardly the way to gain acceptance....


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Old 10-17-2006, 07:34 PM   #184
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Well that definately the other side of the story! I enjoy tweaking and playing with motors as well it just cost a heck of alot of money and time. Seriously I will never reach the speeds as some people I have raced with for the simple fact that I dont have the time nor do I wish to buy 3 stock motors and tinker with each one trying out brushes and zapping magnets, and race the best one and so forth. Oh and I dont have the talent either.

I just feel BL are a good product. and I have been pulling for the technology since it started.
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:40 PM   #185
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oh, and I do appreciate your biased opinion (seriously I do). If This was the very industry I work in, and people were voiceing opinions against the very products I sell.......... My reaction would be to defend it too.
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:50 PM   #186
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[QUOTE=EddieO]
I am sorry, but guys are not quiting because they are losing to Jack Blow 50% off sponsored guy. Guys who supposedly quit over this, would of quit anyways....this is just the easy cop out.....



Later EddieO[/QUOTE

No people are quiting is another thread and its because its just too damn expensive!!!! Any TC competition car is over 400.00 come on. And "radio's" to get a top of the line radio 400.00. Top of the line speedo's are pushing 200.00 and then and here is the kicker in 6 months it will all be worthless cause they have come out with somthing new! I should just try and keep up with the latest computer tech

Its just a fact and everyone knows it
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:52 PM   #187
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Way to attack his "bias" rather then try to debate the issue. If it wasn't Eddie O, it would have been someone else who destroyed your stupid idea to mandate brushless.

That's a cheap shot Randy B and it shows you are desperate.
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Old 10-17-2006, 08:28 PM   #188
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Wouldnt banning traction compounds acheive the same result?
If you cant use all the power of your 7x1 because of traction issues, you might as well run a 9x2 and as a side effect you will have less wear and tear on batts, motor ,chassis and tires.
It comes down in the end to driver ability and chassis setup.

You could then run 4 and 6 cell together and give dispensation to 4 cell guys to run lighter weight. It seems a win win situation to me.
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:02 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Oh, god "big brother knows best?" That's the attitude from ROAR? If so, then ROAR is completely dead to me. If I ever gain influence in this hobby, I will do my best to discredit them and bring about their demise.

Anyone remember that line from the movie "Stripes" ???.....Lighten up, Francis!

Good god people, lets just see what happens. Personally I see 4 cells as being nice if I want to run 12th scale as well.

I bet when Don Garletts (sp?) first came up with the idea of slipping the clutch a bit instead of just dumping raw power straight to the ground he was laughed at, but hey smoother power delivery proved better. So may be the case with 4cell, just better handling from less weight and less burning up the tires. Still fast top end more controlled. Or maybe I'm nuts to think a whole bunch of people just cant keep their panties from getting in a knot over the issue. Tampax anyone?
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:26 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nf_ekt
Anyone remember that line from the movie "Stripes" ???.....Lighten up, Francis!

Good god people, lets just see what happens. Personally I see 4 cells as being nice if I want to run 12th scale as well.

I bet when Don Garletts (sp?) first came up with the idea of slipping the clutch a bit instead of just dumping raw power straight to the ground he was laughed at, but hey smoother power delivery proved better. So may be the case with 4cell, just better handling from less weight and less burning up the tires. Still fast top end more controlled. Or maybe I'm nuts to think a whole bunch of people just cant keep their panties from getting in a knot over the issue. Tampax anyone?
yes it was "Big Daddy Don Garlits"
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:36 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nf_ekt
Anyone remember that line from the movie "Stripes" ???.....Lighten up, Francis!

Good god people, lets just see what happens. Personally I see 4 cells as being nice if I want to run 12th scale as well.

I bet when Don Garletts (sp?) first came up with the idea of slipping the clutch a bit instead of just dumping raw power straight to the ground he was laughed at, but hey smoother power delivery proved better. So may be the case with 4cell, just better handling from less weight and less burning up the tires. Still fast top end more controlled. Or maybe I'm nuts to think a whole bunch of people just cant keep their panties from getting in a knot over the issue. Tampax anyone?
Well said.
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:39 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos.J
yes it was "Big Daddy Don Garlits"
Yep yep I think you got it right, he drove the big evil Swamp Rat.

So since you and Jason have been giving 4CM some testing I'd like to here more of what your finding. If Superior or another track makes it a class I'd try it as long as it was 5 minutes..... or will 4200's make 6 (with say a 9 turn brushed).
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:41 PM   #193
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I also vote to ban or control traction tire sauce. Too much involved for everyone in my opinion. And everyone's health for that matter.

How long, how much, how hot, this mixture, that mixture. Most racers are weekend warriors. Not much time to test these factors.
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:43 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nf_ekt
Yep yep I think you got it right, he drove the big evil Swamp Rat.

So since you and Jason have been giving 4CM some testing I'd like to here more of what your finding. If Superior or another track makes it a class I'd try it as long as it was 5 minutes..... or will 4200's make 6 (with say a 9 turn brushed).
5 minutes shouldnt be a problem , I made 6 minutes running the Novak 3.5 with the 4200 pack! Im sure we can do it at superiors, I already talk to 2 other racers that are interested in running it! and the lap times are very close to running with the 6 cells
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:44 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornerspeed
I also vote to ban or control traction tire sauce. Too much involved for everyone in my opinion. And everyone's health for that matter.

How long, how much, how hot, this mixture, that mixture. Most racers are weekend warriors. Not much time to test these factors.
that would be on the next thread
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