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Old 10-13-2006, 12:44 PM   #31
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Lets set things straight about this 4 cell thing. Easton ran 4 cell mod with a 6 turn against us in 19t. His best lap was maybe half second better then mine. He is also a world champion and his car weighed much less minus the 2 cells. I would have been suprised if he didn't win. I'm not saying anything bad about 4 cell racing. I'm just saying lets get the story straight before we start saying oh wow he whipped our asses....
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Old 10-13-2006, 12:52 PM   #32
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Guys - it is simple. Some want it and some don't. Some of us live in a place that weekend racing is all we are looking for, and some only come out when there is a big race.

Let's not forget in order to replace someone leaving this hobby, you need a newbie. Either some of the local tracks or ROAR has forgotten this. I can completely understand why EddieO is more foucsed on the bigger events, after all he is a master at building a motor and shows. But we also need to not forget the newbies, yes they take time, and yes, they can loose interest quickly, but they do buy the products and services you sell.

I have gotten off track, the posting was about were are the approvals from ROAR, and now we have them. For some of us (ME) who is not an insider, the process and rules on how approvals are handled is not as clear as it should or could be.

I see that 4200 maybe legal for next year, and I'm VERY disappointed that LiPos are not. Nothing else to say about, I have my opinion and I'm sure others will dis-agree and while others will agree, so what, it is what it is.
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Old 10-13-2006, 12:53 PM   #33
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Sorry , I am not going to be part of the battery of the month club , Hv this, new even better Hv that, crap...


Eddie , I`m just a regular club racer , no hp-po crap from me ...
Just the facts....

And

I`m not alone .....
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Old 10-13-2006, 12:57 PM   #34
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Well, noobies concern me too......as I do own a track, a very large and expensive one....

A lipo does nothing to stop a noob from staying or leaving the hobby.......they require special chargers and are pretty pricey compared to NIMH counterparts....

Brushless, the maintenance thing is a decent arguement.....but again, if we can't teach them to rebuild a simple electric motor.....how are we going to teach them to rebuild the car itself....costs a little more, but thats mainly from people convinced they need to replace the brushes in their motor every run at a club race....

Over 15 years in this hobby.....and I can tell you, people who quit and blame things typically would of quit anyways.....some people just lose interest because they find something else that interest them more......brushless motors and lipos won't stop it....

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Old 10-13-2006, 01:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAlford
Lets set things straight about this 4 cell thing. Easton ran 4 cell mod with a 6 turn against us in 19t. His best lap was maybe half second better then mine. He is also a world champion and his car weighed much less minus the 2 cells. I would have been suprised if he didn't win. I'm not saying anything bad about 4 cell racing. I'm just saying lets get the story straight before we start saying oh wow he whipped our asses....

David, would you agree this seems to be a similar outcome as it was for the transition from six to four cells with 1/12th?
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:05 PM   #36
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Heck I imbrace both sides...

I run a Mamba Max ESC and 4300 motor that closely resembles a 19T, and the new Orion/Peak Carbon lipo 3200mah.
But since my local track doesn't allow brushless in 19 nor lipo...I use them for practice as I can get 12-15 minutes of strait practice, then when its time to race I just put in a EA KD motor and my EA 4200's.

I like the longer practice and the lower maintaince where brushless/lipo offer you more time to get hot laps in and more time tuning the chassis setup. Its really good for both sides of the debate...

Most tracks don't look under your shell to see what your running during practice so it doesn't really matter...

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Old 10-13-2006, 01:06 PM   #37
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I'll leave my opinions to myself on the 4 cell issue.
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, noobies concern me too......as I do own a track, a very large and expensive one....

A lipo does nothing to stop a noob from staying or leaving the hobby.......they require special chargers and are pretty pricey compared to NIMH counterparts....
"they require special chargers and are pretty pricey compared to NIMH counterparts..." WHAT!!!!! man you have got tell where I can charge from that is less costly then a LiPo charger...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Brushless, the maintenance thing is a decent arguement.....but again, if we can't teach them to rebuild a simple electric motor.....how are we going to teach them to rebuild the car itself....costs a little more, but thats mainly from people convinced they need to replace the brushes in their motor every run at a club race....
That is what you are in business for, to provide a motors to me... I really doubt that Tony Stewart builds his motors (PS> I did race Go-karts with him... most people bought the motors. In our case Comet Kart Sales, provide them to us all day long. While Tony ran in Juior class. I ran in the senior class.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Over 15 years in this hobby.....and I can tell you, people who quit and blame things typically would of quit anyways.....some people just lose interest because they find something else that interest them more......brushless motors and lipos won't stop it....

Later EddieO
The question is why did they lose interest....
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:18 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Nothing stops Orion from sending in a package......but the rules don't allow it in their current form.......

On the dates.....all I know is they are approved at the Meeting in October....for use starting the first of the following year.....its possible they go in an change the date back come Jan 1....or simply the web guy messed up....who knows. Simple fact though.....submitted september approved in october for use jan 1 the following year.....not sure what is so confusing....

4 cell racing isn't the cure, but it simply won't kill racing....the JMCRA guys are having success with it....Billy Easton ran it this weekend against 6 cell cars and still won....its still fast, just less voltage....

LIPO is not the cure for anything......the geeks are already figuring out ways to mess with them for increased voltage and runtime and lower IR....and they fail at a greater rate than NIMH do (I replace more LIPO packs for recievers, tx, and mini's per month than I do NIMH, which I sell 25-1 over LiPo)....we have not seen it in planes and such because its a whole different enviroment....

Later EddieO
Eddie, their are guys like myself, that love the benefits of lipos. longer practice times,( and believe me, I need it) consistant power, mulitible charges per day. As a training aid, you can't beat them. Lipo's won't go away because properly used, their a better power source for the average RC user. If the racing organizations don't see this and continue to ignore it, it will be of no good to the sport in general. hope everyone wakes up .
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:33 PM   #40
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Bvolt, you are misreading what I was saying.....I was saying special chargers and the PACKS are more pricey than the NIMH counterparts.....Lipo chargers are in general not to bad price wise....but give it time, high end versions will make the way to the market.....the GFX is already being made to charge lipos...


Don't worry cherry, Lipos will gain all the same traits NIMH have.....the battery of the month club will rise again out of them.....just watch. Remember, NIMH was supposed to cure that also.....remember, no more memory, etc......all the capacity we will ever need....

Some people lose interest cause they have attention spans the size of this - .....some are just hobby whores and other simply like to try new things.....15+ years of racing.....equipment is not the key to retainage.....keep thinking that and keep wasting time. RC is simply NOT a cheap hobby. RC planes is super expensive and they keep growing.......pick up a RC plane magazine and you will see why....

Later EddieO
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:37 PM   #41
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In airplanes they make their own ESCs to work with brushless for competition. Boy wont that be fun....
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:02 PM   #42
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EddieO - Fair point... I do agree, with time, you will see LiPo specialites. I still do not agree that today LiPos are more cost and un-fair on the track.

So please share with me how my 3800 are a second a lap slower then my LiPo, and my LiPo is weighted to the weight of a 3800 and with my LiPo I can run with th top local guys. I KNOW it is me... and battery managment, but I for sure can not figure it out. and the local guy is runing 2 year old 3300. I do not want to buy batteries every month... and the maintaince, what a nightmare... I want to spend the time on improving my skills and car setup, not battery care.... Yes, I have followed to the T the instructions on the SMC site.

Sorry I know this one when a different direction, but I for one would like to learn and willing to learn.
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:09 PM   #43
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bvoltz and eddie0, lets settle it on the track. bvoltz gets all the new gadgetry and eddie gets all ROAR stuff. Winner sets the direction for RC! Sound fair?
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
bvoltz and eddie0, lets settle it on the track. bvoltz gets all the new gadgetry and eddie gets all ROAR stuff. Winner sets the direction for RC! Sound fair?
Really do not know... I'm sure will meet at the 2007 on-road nationals (not on the track).. I plan on attending if they are reasonable close...

Does EddieO drive?
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Old 10-13-2006, 02:47 PM   #45
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I'm not trying to start anything but I hope all of U know that with Brushless and Lipos, Motor builders and Matchers won't be needed so all U really do is put alot of good companies out of business.
Personally I don't care what happens my 3800's and brushed motor have already beaten Lipos and Brushless at more than 1 track. It's called tuning/setup Plus I'm getting 10 minutes+ runtime.

Now for the 4cell thing. Leave it in oval and 1/12th. They don't belong in TC's. Someone asked why people loose interest. It's called last minute changes after everyone is already set. Someone new gets 6cell packs to start racing because thats what was used when they ordered and when they get to track everyone is running 4 cell's instead. U want new racers find a way to lower the cost of competitive kits and ESC's not cell count.

my .02 cents TY Bob
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