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Old 09-13-2006, 08:52 AM   #46
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. Oh well, even the dinosaurs needed a major catastrophe to bring forth their extinction
I m sorry, but we all know the REAL reason dinosaurs became extinct.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:58 AM   #47
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That would be all well and good say two years ago. Chargers and quality ones at that, are Li-Po friendly and speaking for the superbrain 977, cuts off at 90% when set correctly. If not, just watch it and see that it doesnt go over 8.4 volts. Or how about this, if you are running li-po cells, they must be charged BEFORE you get to the track. Doesnt seem to be much of problem considering that most people in this hobby can READ and know how to charge these delicate packs...get off of it already. This isnt back in the day when people treated li-pos like regular cells and tried to peak em to the teeth. Li-po doesnt need to be peaked, can be charged in advance and if roar or any other governing body wants to, make sure people have functioning LVC's. They check armatures to make sure people arent cheating, so what the hell....stop trying to thwart progress. Run your cells, get smoked and then come to the
First off, I can see that you haven't learned anything. And I can see why, when someone states their opinion, and you respond, instead of stating your opinion, it's more of an attack.

ANYWAY, I never said I didn't WANT LiPos, and I'm not trying to 'thwart progress'. I use them all the time in my 1:18th scale and Heli stuff. My point is you have to be a little more responsible to use these packs. Orion/Peak has done a great job by putting these in a solid container...that's a step in the right direction. I think, however, that we won't see LiPo's in the future....there's another type of battery on the horizon that has pretty much the same qualities as LiPos but without the safety factors.

I work for a manufacturer and can't tell you how many times we get calls about stupid crap that is explained to them IN THE KIT THEY BOUGHT! So, no, I don't think everyone reads whats in front of them. I just think, IN MY OPINION, LiPos wont' be accepted as quickly as everyone expects.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:59 AM   #48
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I m sorry, but we all know the REAL reason dinosaurs became extinct.
Were they smoking around the LiPos?
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:04 AM   #49
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I was going to pick up some Lithium Ions for a project, came across a site with the right size battery I needed. The company required you to print out a form, state what you were going to use the cells for, sign it and fax it back to them before they'd sell to you.... I thought it was a pain, but excellent at the same time....

I keep jabbing at my club to see if we can run LiPo's, we'll see this year.... I may only race 12th scale so it may be a moot point...
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:05 AM   #50
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The boogie man is coming, the boogie man is coming...Scared yet?

Wait, I got it...

The sky is falling, the sky is falling....anything?

Wait, here we go...

I'm charging and using a lipo in a car or truck, that's sure to instill terror in some people. Can lipo's start on fire? Yes. Can sub-c batterys explode? Yes. Can you over charge a sub-c? Yes. What happens? It becomes a shotgun shell. Can you over-charge a LiPo? Yes. What happens? It consumes itself. I was worried about LiPo batteries initially too. Then I started using them in my Mini-LST, and then my airplanes and heli's. If you take the proper safety approach with LiPo's, they are SAFER than sub-c's. How so? They don't hit temperatures of 150-degrees plus, so you don't have to worry about burning yourself just putting the damn thing in your car, they don't have exposed positive and negative contacts that can short out on your chassis, and you don't have all the gobblety gook with trays, chargers, dischargers, cyclers, and the like. Also, they allowed LiPo's in the KO race. Were there any incidents? I haven't heard so I honestly don't know. I think a lot of the responsibility comes to the shop owner too. If they're worried about fires and such, require anyone who uses a lipo in their building to charge in a fire-proof container such as just a pickle jar or a LiPo Sack. I love the simplicity and the no-hassle usage I have with my airplane LiPo's. I charged up 4 packs yesterday to fly. I flew 1/2 of one pack and landed because it was too windy. Guess what? When the weather improves in a day or two, I can still run those other 3 packs without any noticible difference in performance.

And Tony, I really disagree with your theory that Airplane guys are more experienced. Many are, and that's a given, but having seen how many people are buying parkflyers and beginning RTF's, there's a ton of people getting their hands on LiPo's with ZERO previous RC experience. I don't think that the air guys are any smarter than the surface guys. In fact, look at how the Mini and Micro crowd has embraced LiPo's. I think it's going to take time and education, but I personally like what my lipos offer. That being said, someone I work with absolutely is terrified about LiPo's at the track. He see's major fires and such. I think he's wrong, but his apprehension is shared by many.
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:16 AM   #51
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For those who do not think Lipos are dangerous, I show you the following link:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187

Look at posts #4 and #5.

I used to be of the same thinking until I had a good conversation with some lipo users. I am excited for when they enter the rc car market, but until they are safe for a RC car, I think I'll stick to NiMH.

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Old 09-13-2006, 09:31 AM   #52
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And Tony, I really disagree with your theory that Airplane guys are more experienced. Many are, and that's a given, but having seen how many people are buying parkflyers and beginning RTF's, there's a ton of people getting their hands on LiPo's with ZERO previous RC experience.
Good point. But do those planes COME with LiPos or is that an after-the-fact purchase? If they come with LiPos, I have nothing to say. You're right. If they don't, I think the fact that they don't 'abuse' their equipment....learn how to fly (which, we all know could end pretty bad with ONE crash), the responsibility of 'learning' (and not crashing) is a little higher, don't you agree? Not sure if that came out correctly, but, yeah.

I recently bought a Heli. It came with a small LiPo pack and charger. Pretty simple to install, charge and fly. But I'm experienced. Could the normal person, not knowing about the soft-outer case, mis-handle this pack to the point of puncture? Sure. As could a newbie airplane person. As could a newbie car guy. The fact that Orion put this pack in a hard case is, in my book, 100% in the right direction. That to me is the best preventative innovation of the year I don't feel so uncomfortable with these packs....especially if you have guys driving around the track, bashing into one another, jumping their vehicles, etc.

Oh, and BTW, I am scared of the boogie man
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:36 AM   #53
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You know, if I werent reading this firsthand, I would think this was a joke. You people are posting stuff from planes, people trying to modify things on their own, bad charging techiques, mishandling and obviously poor maintennance keeping by USERS in reference to Li-Po. I mean really folks. Could someone show me a up to date, current pic or mpeg of a team orion, Maxamps or FMA direct pack that had any of these fires or pyrotechnic displays? I have had NiMh fizz and pop in my hand from touching the metal band on my watch and if I were drunk at the time, it may have been worse. Granted, Li-Po can be a bit more volatile, but my God. Stop being p***ies and grow with the times.
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:37 AM   #54
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Even though i m rather Pro-Lipo, there is a very valid point against them.

If you give lipo packs to 100 inexperienced users, there is indeed a sligthly higher possibility of something going wrong than with Nicd or NIMhs.

That is a fact, due to the nature of lipos which are not, for most of them, encased in anything, and thus very exposed.

The charging procedure for Lipo is also sligthly (!!) more complex than the basic resistance cable i started with with my first nicd pack and my grasshopper !!! Hence, not for NoObs.

The risk factor of young kids with Rtrs or what not, toying with lipos is considerable vs safer mainstream solutions.

For EXPERIENCED GUYS - read anyone with decent serious R/C experience - and who generally know what they re doing - Orion and such encased lipo packs are totally acceptable and should be allowed.. hence my point.

For sanctioned racing - Lipo s are fine - you are dealing with people who more or less know what they re doing.. the guys charging nimhs at 10amps+ are probably more dangerous than those running lipos.

For Mainstream use, i can totally understand why some people say there are risks. The chances of seeing a kid charge a lipo with a basic duratrax charger, or with a wrong mode, are MUCH MUCH Bigger.

I think everyone is trying to pass their view as "ALL FOR" or "ALL AGAINST", but the truth is in between...
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:47 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull
Stop being p***ies and grow with the times.

It's not about growing up with the times....it's about safety.

Patriick said it all....for EXPERIENCED people, LiPos are no problem (well, less of a problem). We know what to do, HOW TO READ, etc etc. In fact, the KO race (just this past weekend ALLOWED the use of LiPos at the race! Everything was fine....no fires, no issues, etc. You DID, however, have to charge them in a flame-proof box (ammo box, etc). Valid request, but it showed that they are GREAT for racing.

On a tangent, funny to walk around the pits and see how much weight the guys running LiPos had to add to their cars (weight limit enforced at the race). Just funny to see.

Anyway, there are companies out there that aren't ready to take a 'risk' and produce these cells. It IS a risk. Orion, MaxAmps...whoever else, IS taking a big risk by doing this....but SOMEONE has to if we want to make them mainstream, or take a step toward future battery setups. Kudos to them for doing that.
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:55 AM   #56
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Good point. But do those planes COME with LiPos or is that an after-the-fact purchase? If they come with LiPos, I have nothing to say. You're right. If they don't, I think the fact that they don't 'abuse' their equipment....learn how to fly (which, we all know could end pretty bad with ONE crash), the responsibility of 'learning' (and not crashing) is a little higher, don't you agree? Not sure if that came out correctly, but, yeah.
Yes, there are RTF planes and Heli's that are coming with LiPo's. One heli I am thinking of specifically that comes with a Lipo, DC Smart charger/balancer, and the AC adaptor that is SPECIFICALLY designed for first time/zero experience pilots. There's another plane that, while not designed for first timers, many have purchased because of styling and future performance. It comes with a brushless and LiPo, along with the appropriate charger. I think though that's one of the biggest keys: Getting the right charger for the battery. I have some concerns, not many but some, that people will try to use their Sub-C charger on a Lipo, figuring what harm can there be. If there's going to be an issue with surface and LiPo I feel the biggest area of concern will be in the charging of the cells. But good LiPo chargers are really coming down in price too which helps.

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Oh, and BTW, I am scared of the boogie man
Don't worry about it anymore Tony...Barry's gone to XRay now
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:01 AM   #57
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Don't worry about it anymore Tony...Barry's gone to XRay now
HAHHAHAHHAHA Now THAT'S funny.
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:01 AM   #58
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There were no problems with lipo's at the KO race, the one thing I did notice, was that people running lipo's swithched back to their IB's for the mains, primerily because they felt they had more punch with the IB's.

I am surprised to hear people discuss the dangers of lipo's and nimh cells. Their are so many sports and activities that have far greater dangers associated with them, that people readly accept without debate.

The main point I take away from the Lipo / Nimh discussions, is that people seem to want a battery that is easier to maintain and it sounds like the characteristics of the Lipo's are a step in the right direction. I am certain the advancement of battery technology is going to happen much faster then any of us can imagine at this point in time, since we have become such a mobil society and a majority of the devices we own now depend on a battery source. Just my 2c's
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:08 AM   #59
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Hey frenchie,

Valid point, but no one is saying make Li-po the standard. And have you taken a look at kids today? They are telling their folks HOW to do stuff. Seeing that ROAR and all of these other governing bodies are into rules, set rules for Li-Po. At this juncture, anybody into these cells know that you cant super fast charge em, they hold their voltage and avoid attempting to peak them. This translates to me:

Charge em the night before.
Charge more than one pack
Learn the thresholds of your charger so you know what the maximum amperage is you can use to give a lil bump to a previously raced pack.

There are ways it can be done, period. I feel bad for my sub c cells, because I have been using that type for so long and they look rather lonely sitting there watching me go goo goo ga ga over Li-Po. But, it is what it is. New technology forces others to change and slowly but surely, dinosaurs will die off and a new life form will come about and evolve.
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:19 AM   #60
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go to www.batterybunker.net and you can see why you need to charge lipos in a fire safe container.
You also get a peak at what happens when you put to much of a charge to a lipo.....
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