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Old 09-13-2006, 02:04 AM   #31
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i fly helis and use lipo's all the time, if you look after them they will look after you. I had a big crash last week and the lipo got damaged and puffed up. They are very easy to damage, thats the down side but still like them.
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:54 AM   #32
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Even if lipo's are better, if they are not legal to race, they are not legal, what is so hard to understand?

Lipo's for rc cars are new technology, they are not the majority or mainstream yet. How fast are the rules supposed to change to new technology? The instant it becomes available? That would be like not having rules at all.

Don't buy a lipo pack and then complain you can't use them in a race that dosen't allow lipo's.

Should baseball players be allowed to use steroids because it makes them perform better? No, because its against the rules.

Change the rules so Lipo's are legal, then show up to go racing with them. Not the other way around.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:05 AM   #33
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The analogy with steroids is totally wrong, and somewhat dubtious !

Lipos are a new technology and there is no intent on racing with them "illegally", hiding it from the others and claiming forever that it never happen.

Steroids are illegal, dangerous, and will NEVER be allowed.
Lipos are a superior technology that sanctioning bodies are just dragging their feet, and they re legal..

Lipo bashers should relax a bit..
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:41 AM   #34
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"Lipos are a superior technology that sanctioning bodies are just dragging their feet, and they re legal."

They are far from superior technology and they certainly can be dangerous, and at the moment, they are illegal for racing - steroids in sports is a more than comparable analogy...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60570423705609

Even the slightest possibility of this happening at a ROAR national race is a major concern for ROAR, and a host track.

Don't get me wrong here, if the batteries are legal in the rules, then let them race. But their not. So, don't go buy a lithium battery and then complain because your not allowed to race them.

Has any Lithium battery manufacturer even sent ROAR (only one of many sanctioning bodies) batteries to create a set of rules for? Are you sure its the sanctioning bodies dragging their feet?
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:46 AM   #35
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And Steroids are legal, doctors prescribe them all the time. There not dangerous if taken properly. Its the competitive atheltes that use them dangerously and push it to the edge.

and we don't know anybody in r/c that pushes there batteries to the edge right?
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:55 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
NiMh cells last forever if you charge them at 2A and never dischagre them faster than 20A...but we dont do that.

As soon has LiPo becomes the norm I flat out gaurantee the following things will happen:

1. Someone will start matching and grading LiPo cells.

2. There will be a battery war between Kokam and 2-3 other manufacturers over max C racing and voltage holding power.

3. Some one will figure out that charging LiPo at 10A makes them a whole lot faster...but they burn up in 30 runs.

4. Everyone will have to charge at 10A or they might as well stay home and watch football.

This is what we do to all cells we race NiCd, MiMh and in the future LiPo.


Yep u said it, its the same with brushless .Some guys are in some stupid lala land thinking that all this introductory low maint hype will stay that way once the main stream racing circles take on lipo brushless and forget nihm and brushed. All the voodoo we do to our current race gear is coming once more and more clubs jump on the lipo bandwagon. Im on the fence with the stuff cuz i have my investments on brushed/nihm. Got all the gear and like using it all.

But you are fooling your selves if you think lipos will never get to the point of buying matched lipos and chassing after the latest and greatest version of the cell. There will be muchmore/trinity/CE/ect ect new "better" lipo chargers, discharge box, fancy equilization gear, brushless is already a pain for me as there is no STOCK standard. ITs basically a modified only setup with the motor of the month already in effect. I was hoping maufacturers could agree on a stock setting limiting voltage and rpm but it will never happen i guess.

The tru cost for "RACING" lipos is not truely available.. Once everyone is "RACING" them we will see...
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:00 AM   #37
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The best part is that Lithium Polymer batteries are not the most superior lithium battery, there are better ones avaliable and even better ones still on the way.
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:32 AM   #38
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[QUOTE=Scrubb]"Lipos are a superior technology that sanctioning bodies are just dragging their feet, and they re legal."

They are far from superior technology and they certainly can be dangerous, and at the moment, they are illegal for racing - steroids in sports is a more than comparable analogy...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60570423705609

Even the slightest possibility of this happening at a ROAR national race is a major concern for ROAR, and a host track.

Yo dumb ass:
That would be all well and good say two years ago. Chargers and quality ones at that, are Li-Po friendly and speaking for the superbrain 977, cuts off at 90% when set correctly. If not, just watch it and see that it doesnt go over 8.4 volts. Or how about this, if you are running li-po cells, they must be charged BEFORE you get to the track. Doesnt seem to be much of problem considering that most people in this hobby can READ and know how to charge these delicate packs...get off of it already. This isnt back in the day when people treated li-pos like regular cells and tried to peak em to the teeth. Li-po doesnt need to be peaked.

I posted that within this very thread. If you overcharge any type of battery, you run the risk of fire or explosion. The fact that Li-Po is a bit more volatile is irrelevant. Chargers that charge charge Li-Po have li-po settings that cut off at 90%. Um, dumb ass...they don't need to be peaked! Any moron that sits and charges any battery without a cut-off will get those type of results. So, that being said, when was the last time you just hooked up a power source to a cell and just charged? Um, how about never. Maybe you are just mad because you just bought an antiquated charger and a whole lot of cells from Ebay. Use them for something good...like a starterbox, save your pennies and buy some REAL cells!
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:22 AM   #39
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I trust my Orion Li-Po just as much as my c-cells
aslong as i keep to the parimeters set by manu ,then i can see no probs
also use my common sense (don`t cross wire`s ,drill hole`s in them etc etc)

i have seen guy`s over here charging @8-9.5 amps on c-cells indoors just to get that little bit more & yet i charge my Orion Li-Po @ 4.8a on a 50.00 multi charger (propeak) instead using my 150.00 ICE & i still get the same performence with pushing the Li-Po to the limit
i race with my son (9) he uses c-cells 4 of them i use 1 orion LI-Po pk ,it stay`s in the car & get`s top up between race`s that`s it ,it`s not what is legal or what isn`t ,it`s just the orion Li-Po fit`s into my racing style & helps me out big time so i can give more time to my son who has just started .also it gives me no performence advantage on track ,just about even really
c-cells peak off @ 9.2 Orion Li-Po peaks of @ 8.4 atleast the li-po is closer to it`s stated 7.4v then the C-cells (take that last bit as a pinch of salt) true it is but not worth fighting over

by the way if i race properly i have 4 race pks & 3 pratice pks nearly 300 worth of batts on top you have 150 charger

Orion Li-Po corner
1 pk 90.00 + 50.00 charger (propeak prodigy II) money i save ,i`m happy


some guy`s have so much money tied up in c-cells crap ,that they tend to be a bit negative towards anything that might undo that future ,don`t forget GP have another `New`c- cell coming ,i`ll stick to my Li-Po for now

difference between c-cells & Li-Po`s
one goes bang & hisses acid all over the place , The other goes `Burn Baby Burn`light my Fire

Both ways are dangerous if used badley , but used well both are okay
The Li-Po orion pk will save you loads dosh just to go racing, only reccommend the hard cased orion/Trakpower Li-Po ,all the other soft cases should stay with heli`s/airplanes

My fingers bloody hurt now typing all this repettative discussion`s
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:22 AM   #40
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So a video of someone intentionally overcharging a Lipo battery is the reason Lipos are dangerous?

I think the reason Lipos aren't being quickly accepted has many causes.

Ever since I started in R/C ages ago we've been using sub C size cells. Look how many products exist just for sub C: chargers, dischargers, turbo matchers, escs, cell zappers, etc. To date, all electric car kits are designed with the sub C cell dimensions and weight in mind. Pick up a R/C magazine and see how many ads there are for something that utilizes sub C technology. That's a lot of marketing momentum built up behind sub C cells. When you talk legalization (for sanctioned racing bodies) of a new technology you are talking about changing the entire R/C racing industry.

That kind of change will take years if it happens at all.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:26 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rysuleod
So a video of someone intentionally overcharging a Lipo battery is the reason Lipos are dangerous?

I think the reason Lipos aren't being quickly accepted has many causes.

Ever since I started in R/C ages ago we've been using sub C size cells. Look how many products exist just for sub C: chargers, dischargers, turbo matchers, escs, cell zappers, etc. To date, all electric car kits are designed with the sub C cell dimensions and weight in mind. Pick up a R/C magazine and see how many ads there are for something that utilizes sub C technology. That's a lot of marketing momentum built up behind sub C cells. When you talk legalization (for sanctioned racing bodies) of a new technology you are talking about changing the entire R/C racing industry.

That kind of change will take years if it happens at all.
agree
i can see some under hand movement to slow down Li-Po involment in our racing to be made legal for every one
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:28 AM   #42
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Anti lipo posters often have battery matching companies in their signatures !

Nimh can be plenty dangerous too, same problems if managed improperly.
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:32 AM   #43
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difference between c-cells & Li-Po`s
one goes bang & hisses acid all over the place , The other goes `Burn Baby Burn`light my Fire

Both ways are dangerous if used badley , but used well both are okay

Mr. Jolly, well put!
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:38 AM   #44
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When it comes to Li-Po, I was initially terrified on the strength of the horror stories. When Orion came out the with 4800, that did it for me. While I went with another manufacter (thank you MaxAmps), I was still scared as crap when I first hooked the thing up to be charged. You know when that went out the window? When I put the pack in a car and the car took off and drove at the same throttle until I powered down. I shut it down early because my arm wasnt used to holding the remote that long running electric . After 14 minutes or so, I still had 7.5 volts. Check the battery in the morning, no drastic explosions and the pack still registered at 7.5 volts. What, no linear drop-off? Came home from work, STILL 7.5 volts. Try that with any sub-c cell.....Charged and out the door, ZOOM ZOOM. Oh well, even the dinosaurs needed a major catastrophe to bring forth their extinction
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:45 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ford_racing
also with LIPO's you need to have special charger

AND a special ESC to ensure the voltage doesn't drop below their recommended voltage,

this ESC is IMO the main problem with the introduction of LIPO's at race meetings
My ESC with voltage cutoff always lets me run longer then I would have it I was judging when to pull it off the track. All you gotta do is pull the car off when it begins to slow down.
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