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Old 09-07-2006, 11:16 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_robinson
dont waste your breath EA, you should check out wild cherry's nonsense on the NW thread

he just jealous of motor tuning jobs, he cleans crappers for a living
You motor tuner`s ...


Set up mail order sponsorships , sell discounted stock motor`s & battery`s cheaper than the local track facility`s can sell...

Then of all things !

Make racer`s think they are a valuable part of the racing community while they do this ...

Pure Bull !!!!

Tuner`s compete against your local tracks taking the very customers that make racing in your town possible....


O -sure , they sponsor a few stock events for the clubs ....
but....


Tuner driver`s make stock almost impossible to win today for a beginner ...

Today the beginner racer now have to compete against a guy with discounted gear and year`s of experience ... (BAD FOR OUR SPORT)

No wonder most beginner`s, the bread & butter for our racing facilities, leave this sport after just being bump out of novice..


Thanks alot tuner`s !!

I blame you for this fact that you will deny...

This is one racer who won`t miss you......

I support my local track`s first !

Just so you know EA , there family's are the ones who I really care about !!!


I will never send you my money on the Internet cus I have a mail order sponsorship....

Don`t need one either cus I own a brushless.....
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:21 AM   #62
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I think I heard the entire Internet just groan in unison.
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:29 AM   #63
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I think what we'll find with brushless tuning is that while the motors probably can be tuned and made faster, it won't require quite the amount of attention to continue running at its best. One of the biggest challenges when buying a fast motor from a tuner is keeping it fast. I personally don't mind fiddling with a motor to see what makes it fast, or see what works best. What I do mind, like so many others, is the tooling, time and frequency of work required to keep a brushed motor running at its best.

Wait, are we having a civil discussion on this topic? Quick, someone throw a punch, they're gonna think we're getting soft.
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:31 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
You motor tuner`s ...


Set up mail order sponsorships , sell discounted stock motor`s & battery`s cheaper than the local track facility`s can sell...

Then of all things !

Make racer`s think they are a valuable part of the racing community while they do this ...

Pure Bull !!!!

Tuner`s compete against your local tracks taking the very customers that make racing in your town possible....


O -sure , they sponsor a few stock events for the clubs ....
but....


Tuner driver`s make stock almost impossible to win today for a beginner ...

Today the beginner racer now have to compete against a guy with discounted gear and year`s of experience ... (BAD FOR OUR SPORT)

No wonder most beginner`s, the bread & butter for our racing facilities, leave this sport after just being bump out of novice..


Thanks alot tuner`s !!

I blame you for this fact that you will deny...

This is one racer who won`t miss you......

I support my local track`s first !

Just so you know EA , there family's are the ones who I really care about !!!


I will never send you my money on the Internet cus I have a mail order sponsorship....

Don`t need one either cus I own a brushless.....

BLA BLA BLA If you look at the reputable motor tuners out there you will see that our prices are HIGHER than what a Hobbyshop sells for. I know with my hobbyshop and distributor prices THEY make MORE money than I do on a motor!! So your argument holds no water there.

Sounds to me as though you've been shot down by a lot of companies you were trying to get sponsored by and that is why you have a gruge

Stock at a NATIONAL event should not even be for beginers. How many new racers/beginers do you know that can even afford the ENTRY fee for a national much less the travel, hotel and other expenses. On a weekly level I know everyone I race with likes it when I race stock....Gives them a chance to kick my butt (which happens a lot it seems) and they can also learn how to make their car's faster and set them up properly.

Mark my words....Brushless will NOT EQUAL OUT STOCK CLASS or even make it more competitive for the beginers that you say you are trying to protect. Ive done enough testing with brushless motors to know that timing on them is more important than it is on a brushed motor...Its a HUGE change...And then they become 1 weekend or 1 run motors...How is that going to help beginers? What happens when company A comes out with a new stock motor that everyone "has to have" to be fast? Then next month company B comes out with a faster "stock" motor......See my point? Its never going to end so get used to it!!

EA
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:32 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
You motor tuner`s ...


Set up mail order sponsorships , sell discounted stock motor`s & battery`s cheaper than the local track facility`s can sell...

Then of all things !

Make racer`s think they are a valuable part of the racing community while they do this ...

Pure Bull !!!!

Tuner`s compete against your local tracks taking the very customers that make racing in your town possible....


O -sure , they sponsor a few stock events for the clubs ....
but....


Tuner driver`s make stock almost impossible to win today for a beginner ...

Today the beginner racer now have to compete against a guy with discounted gear and year`s of experience ... (BAD FOR OUR SPORT)

No wonder most beginner`s, the bread & butter for our racing facilities, leave this sport after just being bump out of novice..


Thanks alot tuner`s !!

I blame you for this fact that you will deny...

This is one racer who won`t miss you......

I support my local track`s first !

Just so you know EA , there family's are the ones who I really care about !!!


I will never send you my money on the Internet cus I have a mail order sponsorship....

Don`t need one either cus I own a brushless.....
So I guess you'll get mad at the local racer that buys a motor over the counter and tunes it himself too huh?
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:40 AM   #66
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Style, although it is a rare occurance now days, that racer is the only kind I help out and try to keep racing.....
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:41 AM   #67
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Also-if youve run much brushless and brushed at the same time, your practice packs feel extra doggy with a brushless and your new packs feel like dropping 2 winds on a mod motor without changing gears!!

Sure you can feel the difference between your good packs and not so good packs with your brushed motor, but its very significant with brushless.

This means to me that keeping fresh packs will be even more important in the brushless era.

Ray
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:45 AM   #68
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The only reason I bring that up is due to the idea of parity. Although brushless might make thngs more equal at a big race when everyones got new batteries, for club racing, the guys who buy used batteries and run them for a year will be at a even greater disadvantage to the ones always rolling fresh packs.
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:48 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
BLA BLA BLA

Sounds to me as though you've been shot down by a lot of companies you were trying to get sponsored by and that is why you have a gruge



EA
Actually had a tuner sponsorship for a short time ...
Gave it back after realizing what I had done while soldering my fresh new packs in front of the local track owner and feeling guilty as sin......

Will never make that mistake again.....
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:50 AM   #70
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These motor and battery companies exist only because of today's communications like the internet and forums like this. If it was not for RCtech I would not know who any of you are except for maybe a 2x2" add in one of the magazines. Even then I'd probably pass you up and buy my motors and batteries from my LHS. Who is actually getting hurt in the end?

I've got a dyno and the know how to tune motors, I too could start up an e-commerce business, sponsor some racers and my only overhead would be my web hosting. Honestly, I'm retired from the work force and I don't have the time to do it because my family comes first, the hardest job I have ever had is my current one, a stay at home parent...

The matchers and tuners have made it very difficult for the novices out there who strive to get better. Stock motors were not supposed to be zapped, tuned, cut every run they were supposed to be a cost effective way to get into this hobby and learn before going to mod.

I just actually came back from the flying flield... here's a bunch of old guys who have embraced new technology and made it their own. Why is that? Maybe because they spend more time playing with their toy airplanes than on the internet seeing who makes the best prop is...

Another thing.... Sponsorship and club racers don't mix... You my friends are a big reason for the decline in club racing... Like I said, I don't care to win the A main, been there done that have the plastic trophy... But for the guys that want to get up there all they see is that they need sponsors... Let's take the sponsorship out of stock racing...
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:00 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
Let's take the sponsorship out of stock racing...
Believe it or not I agree with this 100%!!! And being on a Roar Committee I can tell you that we have been trying to come up with a way to do it for a long time. But untill there is a way to police it and enforce it at the regional/national level it will never happen.

I will say that most of the Club racers who think they need to be sponsored to win the A main are being mis-lead. They need to learn to drive and set their car up first. I cant tell you the last time the fastest car won a big race...its always the best driver/car combo...not motor!!

EA
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:01 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhuang
The only reason I bring that up is due to the idea of parity. Although brushless might make thngs more equal at a big race when everyones got new batteries, for club racing, the guys who buy used batteries and run them for a year will be at a even greater disadvantage to the ones always rolling fresh packs.

thats where lipo kicks in. lol
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:06 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
Believe it or not I agree with this 100%!!! And being on a Roar Committee I can tell you that we have been trying to come up with a way to do it for a long time. But untill there is a way to police it and enforce it at the regional/national level it will never happen.

I will say that most of the Club racers who think they need to be sponsored to win the A main are being mis-lead. They need to learn to drive and set their car up first. I cant tell you the last time the fastest car won a big race...its always the best driver/car combo...not motor!!

EA
EA - There was an EA driver that came to a big race in my area that ran 19T and STOCK and chickened out of Mod. I think no sponsored driver should run stock. I feel that it is not fair to me or others that race with average stuff.
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:07 PM   #74
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I agree with the sponsorship thing in stock....Eric and I have proposed numerous ways to stop it and force those guys into 19t...all of which have been shot down.

Stock was never meant to be a beginner class though.....it was designed to be a more equalized playing field than mod....I can get guys racing for 20 years professionally to come back that up. Stock used to have a WORLD TITLE at IFMAR....beginner classes don't have world championships.


And for the record, the tuner companies and battery companies have been around forever.....the internet may have made it easier to start one, but they have exsisted forever.....you obiviously have not been racing long enough to know or you may be so old you forgot.

And for the record George.....your beloved AE/Reedy has been doing discounted sponsorships forever....so does Losi, Orion, Trinity.....all the big companies. Us tuners are doing nothing different.....except we occasionally get blackmailed by a customer to keep his business....you would do the same thing to keep the guy.

I have tried to get my products in the local shops as best I can....I keep my internet prices up there and I make sure my other internet dealers don't undercut (I have cut one off before)......pretty much all the companies sell direct now, minus a few.....I think even AE does George...

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Old 09-07-2006, 12:10 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
thats where lipo kicks in. lol

Lipo will end up being matched and zapped just like NimH (there is actually already a company claiming they are)....they are a battery made to a tolerance level....there will be good and bad ones.....and at the top levels of racing, .1 second per lap is the difference between the A main and the C main...

Lipo has three problems.....1. the impending 4 cell proposal is an auto death for lipo (which I oppose).2 Lithium Magnase 3. Lithium IOn.....simply two many variations of the lithium battery will make it tough to adopt and come up with a standard......will be NimH for a few more years at least...

Later EddieO
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