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Old 09-05-2006, 06:06 PM   #1
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Default Turbodyno: Amp Steps or Torque Steps?

That's my questionto the professional motor tuners out there. I read Big Jims forum religiously from before the "ABout.com" days and he always used amp steps. So my question really is this: are the torque steps helpful; and what situation would you use them for? What do you set them for for stocks and mods?

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Old 09-05-2006, 07:10 PM   #2
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I used amp steps for a long time on his advise. I now believe in torque steps. A motor that shows good on amp may not look as good on torque. The best motor I have ever ran was a dog on Amp but really shined on torque. I ran this motor and never looked back. On stock just look at the RPM on a specific torque setting. The higher the number the better the motor. It is a little difficult to compare different base motors though (Monster vs P2K2 and such). I would have to look at dyno to see what I step at. In Mod you can sure tell which motor is the baddest. The amp setup is good for setting up the motor for eff. but the RPM will show the story for the punch. I usually look at the higher torque RPMs for punch in offroad but I would suspect that oval would look at a lower torque load.
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:32 PM   #3
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I always used amp steps. I would think there would be a larger variance in the #s put out using torque steps. But I suppose if you had a decent baseline you could use them. But I'm not sure how useful they would be. Anymore I've stopped trying to get that last 1% out of motors. I just cut them, clean them and put new brushes on them. Then I run 'em..thats it. Drive the wheels off it. That last 1% is lost in 1 itsy bitsy bobble just once in 5 minutes...so
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:43 PM   #4
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I have switched over to using torque steps for EVERYTHING. The biggest reason I switched is that torque steps seem to be more consistant and it allows you to compare one type of motor to another type of motor easier. It also makes it easier to find the gear when going from one motor to another. Since it's all based off of the torque sensor on the dyno and not a calculated number I feel it gives better results.

In the end just use what your most knowlegable with. If you understand amp steps and can gear off of them and get the motor setup properly then stick with it...Neither one is right or wrong just different ways to get to the same spot.

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Old 09-05-2006, 08:45 PM   #5
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We had quite a discussion on this on another CE Dyno thread on this Web site.

My opinion is that if you test two motors, the High RPM motor will always win if you test with torque steps. This might be good if you are an oval racer or race offroad outside on a loose track, but the method may fail you otherwise.

I suggest using amps steps. Plenty of graphs and discussion as to why on the other thread.

The gyst is that torque steps neglect the effect of gearing on the car. Amp steps are a better equilizer. If you do rear wheel torque steps then the results look like amps steps, so save some work and do amp steps to start with.
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Old 09-06-2006, 02:58 PM   #6
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So what settings should I try for torque steps? I cant' imagine going above 10 for a stock, but I'm sure it would crash the dyno for mod.
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Old 09-06-2006, 09:36 PM   #7
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While I never owned a CE dyno I did use a Robi dyno for about 5 years. The last year we really stated looking at the torque steps for gearing and to pick the better motors out (I run oval).

There were many times early on that I wondered why a motor ran so good but the max numbers were down. I later pulled up the saved data and noticed the motor had ungodly torque step numbers at the 30 step.

I agree with EA, using the torque step can be a helpful tool for gearing different motors. Seemed like that was the only consistent rpm reading I could get off the dyno that related to the track. Max rpm and the amp step rpm just couldnt be trusted.
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Old 09-06-2006, 09:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadSign
So what settings should I try for torque steps? I cant' imagine going above 10 for a stock, but I'm sure it would crash the dyno for mod.
I use 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. I also dyno all motors at 7 volts. I have found some motors that are awesome at 5 volts be really bad at 7 volts. But on the other side I have NEVER seen a good motor at 7volts be bad a 5 volts.

Everyone has their own opinion and conclusions. Just remember this is the internet and take everything said with a grain of salt. In the end use what your most comfortable with and stick with it. The more you use the dyno and learn to read the data at your chosen settings the better you will be able to tune motors to the track and figure the gearing out for them.

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Old 09-06-2006, 09:46 PM   #9
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EA
Kinda off topic but i figured u would see it here

For oval would you gear the X stock the same as a monster or more like a Roar Stock ? or somewhere in between ?

Say a good rollout is 2.42 for a Monster and 2.27 for a Roar Stock.
Would you put the X around a 2.35 ?
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Old 09-06-2006, 09:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erock1331
EA
Kinda off topic but i figured u would see it here

For oval would you gear the X stock the same as a monster or more like a Roar Stock ? or somewhere in between ?

Say a good rollout is 2.42 for a Monster and 2.27 for a Roar Stock.
Would you put the X around a 2.35 ?
Yeap. The X stock has RPM right in between the Monster and Roar stock but has about the same torque and higher wattage than a Monster. It should be the perfect motor for Oval and 12th scale's.

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Old 09-07-2006, 04:46 AM   #11
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EA, Could you give some examples of dyno results for the cobalt, monster, x stock and Epic motor? I am looking to see if I am in the ball park on tuning these motors.

I know that each dyno will vary a little, but if you could give a few numbers, some guidlines to look at it would be very helpful.

I have been using torque steps for a little while now. I have been testing at 5 volts and it seems that at 5 there is sometimes little variance between motors and it is hard to see a bad motor from a good motor. Does using 7 volts show more of a variance?

I race 4 cell stock at a small ( 140' ) paper clip shaped flat carpet track. What torque steps should I be looking at to pick the best motor?

Thanks, Craig
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Old 09-07-2006, 04:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
I use 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. I also dyno all motors at 7 volts. I have found some motors that are awesome at 5 volts be really bad at 7 volts. But on the other side I have NEVER seen a good motor at 7volts be bad a 5 volts.

Everyone has their own opinion and conclusions. Just remember this is the internet and take everything said with a grain of salt. In the end use what your most comfortable with and stick with it. The more you use the dyno and learn to read the data at your chosen settings the better you will be able to tune motors to the track and figure the gearing out for them.

EA
A quick question. If we only run Oval or 1/12th scale shouldn't we use 5 volts instead of 7 volts? Just wondering because running 1/12th scale and Oval we never see a motor run at 7 volts in the car! lol
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Old 09-07-2006, 07:22 AM   #13
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Tony, Big Jim always said a good motor at 7 volts will be good at 5 volts, but not the other way around....

When I actually used a dyno to tune race motors, I would test them all at 7 volts.....but I would then run them at 5 volts and make adjustments and such based off both....much more complicated, but 4 cell is a much more unique class.....I've always found it harder to tune for 4 cell than 6 cell....

And to answer the questions about torque vs amp steps.....you can in theory use either to effectively tune. Eric is right about it being easier to base gearing off the torque steps.

I personally hate all dynos on the market.....I think they all suck.....and give inconsistent results......and they malfunction WAY to easily.

Later EddieO
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