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Old 09-04-2006, 02:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman996
You have just supported what I wrote...

Stiffer spring = more punch. Punch is a direct result of torque

Lighter spring = more top speed. Top speed is a direct result of RPM.

I lighter spring WILL give more punch (Spools up quicker) out of the corner and therefore more torque.

A heaving spring will cause the motor to not be as snappy out of the corner (doesnt spool up as fast) but will give more RPM at top speed.

Also you must consider as well brush bounce and arching when spring motors as well as traction, drive style and car setup. All of these will determine how you spring a motor.

Yes it sounds backwards but that is how I have found it to work as well. Eddie O is not dumb. He knows a lot and his company (only about 3 years old) has more national titles than most companies have in 8-10 years!! He had Big Jim on the payroll for a long time and really payed attention to everything that Jim said.

EA
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Old 09-04-2006, 02:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman996
You have just supported what I wrote...

Stiffer spring = more punch. Punch is a direct result of torque

Lighter spring = more top speed. Top speed is a direct result of RPM.

LOL , I'm confusing myself now.

Last edited by budachi; 09-04-2006 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by budachi
LOL , I'm confusing myself now.
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
I lighter spring WILL give more punch (Spools up quicker) out of the corner and therefore more torque.

A heaving spring will cause the motor to not be as snappy out of the corner (doesnt spool up as fast) but will give more RPM at top speed.

Also you must consider as well brush bounce and arching when spring motors as well as traction, drive style and car setup. All of these will determine how you spring a motor.

Yes it sounds backwards but that is how I have found it to work as well. Eddie O is not dumb. He knows a lot and his company (only about 3 years old) has more national titles than most companies have in 8-10 years!! He had Big Jim on the payroll for a long time and really payed attention to everything that Jim said.

EA
Your explaination makes it clearer - it just sounds anti-logic, but practice through experience is some of the best proof.
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Old 09-05-2006, 07:43 AM   #20
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EddieO,

Thanks for correcting my mistake on Big Jim's name. I got it crossed up seeing Mr. Dieter's name earlier, sorry about that. I've read hundreds of Big Jim's posts on rccars.com. There's a great deal of info there. I'm glad someone saw fit to keep the site up. And glad you are still following his tradition of answering questions.

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Old 09-05-2006, 10:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
1/12th Scale uses lighter springs cause you have less voltage, so there is less brush bounce, so all a heavier spring will do is put more drag on the comm...

Don't believe me.....ask EA....ask Todd Putnam, ask Dave from Axiom, ask Brandon from Paradigm....ask Jim Dieter, Oscar Jansen, Chad Phillips....

I know it sounds backwards....but that's the way it works....find a dyno and try it out...

Later EddieO
Yes its true. The myth started way back in the 90's when people were under the belief to run a crowbar(heavy spring) on the negative side to get more toorque.


Fact is you get more by a light spring on the - and a heavier on the +
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
Do you realize you are arguing with a Motor tuner that holds National titles plus many other Major race victories to his credit...
No offence but your five or six motors compared to Eddie's 40000+ is not even worth arguing over...
-Shookie <><
I'm not saying the results he's described aren't true a lot of the time, I'm just arguing that they are correct all of the time.

The power rating is a combination of Torque & RPM.
_______________________________Current-----RPM------Power Rating
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Purples, ---------8.9----28300-------68
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Reds,------------7.6----28300-------69
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Greens,---------7.2-----28100-------66.3
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Blues,------------7------33300-------50
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Purple & Red,---7.3-----28000------65
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins
I'm not saying the results he's described aren't true a lot of the time, I'm just arguing that they are correct all of the time.

The power rating is a combination of Torque & RPM.
_______________________________Current-----RPM------Power Rating
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Purples, ---------8.9----28300-------68
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Reds,------------7.6----28300-------69
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Greens,---------7.2-----28100-------66.3
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Blues,------------7------33300-------50
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Purple & Red,---7.3-----28000------65
But you also have to take into account that each brush has its own sweet spot.
I have used different spring combo's for each different brush...
But what Eddie and now Eric have said is generally true overall.
Your splitting hairs now..
-Shookie <><
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:30 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins
I'm not saying the results he's described aren't true a lot of the time, I'm just arguing that they are correct all of the time.

The power rating is a combination of Torque & RPM.
_______________________________Current-----RPM------Power Rating
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Purples, ---------8.9----28300-------68
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Reds,------------7.6----28300-------69
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Greens,---------7.2-----28100-------66.3
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Blues,------------7------33300-------50
Green Sticker Unit 4499's, Purple & Red,---7.3-----28000------65
What type of dyno are you using?

EA
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:31 AM   #25
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Which dyno are you using?


Later EddieO
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:33 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Which dyno are you using?


Later EddieO
WOW...First time I've beat EddieO at anything!! LOL

EA
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Old 09-05-2006, 01:45 PM   #27
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Tekin Dyno900.

If the different types of brush have sweet spots, could you tell us what springs you would recommend for the different types of brushes.

Thanks
Skiddins
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Old 09-05-2006, 01:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins
Tekin Dyno900.

If the different types of brush have sweet spots, could you tell us what springs you would recommend for the different types of brushes.

Thanks
Skiddins
I'll let Eddie coment on the Dyno

Spring tension is really one of the final things I do to a motor. Different brushes, brush alignment, cuts, etc will make a lot bigger difference. Spring tension usually comes when your trying to find the final little bit at a big race. I usually start with 2 red's on everything and go from there. Softer brushes tend to like heavier springs and harder brushes like a little softer springs.

EA
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Old 09-05-2006, 02:14 PM   #29
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ea, eddieo - what you do guys think of the lighter negative spring? i have sprung motors symetrically, and often times you can pull on the negative brush shunt and get the motor to rev higher durring break-in. how much higher seems to be correllated with what voltage you're running at. regardless of what voltage it is (within our operating range), you can't do it with the positive. what is going on there? and how does it translate on the track?
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:35 AM   #30
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Where can I get a set of motor springs with different hardness in one pack???

How much would they normally cost???
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