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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.

Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.

Old 05-21-2007, 06:11 PM
  #1336  
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Note that I think the Mamba is making the batteries run hotter than the GTB does. That probably is a function of that huge capacitor the Novak runs as well as other internal factors

I added this note to my battery tests above. I also got two notes back from Robinson Racing. Of their different pinion lines they recommend the Absolute pinion line for 1/10 pan car. Part number 1416 - 1428. I noted it does not included a 12 tooth pinion. (16 tooth is the lowest) They responded they could expand the line when these motors are more popular. That means that I am the only one clamoring for a good 12 T pinion.

Not many corners need brakes,but on tight low traction hairpins it seems to help a lot. On a medium traction track I can use 85% brakes just on the back tires.
John
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:48 AM
  #1337  
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Originally Posted by John Stranahan
Super Nice track. I see it probably has a traction treatment. Sugar water?
Yes, sugar water. It was the first race on this very new track, so they need to use sugar water. Seemed like the rubbers worked better on it than our foams, but from day 3 (of 4), we also had enough fun. Personally I guess, that a little rain over night made the track even better.

Greetz,

Flitscher
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:21 AM
  #1338  
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-John: My car is done, and would like to true my foams..what is a good start? i dont want to truem all way down to raceready diameter, im using 100T 64p rear and 20T piniong, Mamba7700 and 6cells

Ive heard about 32 in RO for a 3.5 motor? but app what is a good start with my combo?

100/20
7700rpm/v
6 cells (7.2v)

diameter rear:
diameter front:

Thanks
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:42 AM
  #1339  
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thomas are you running on asphalt? on asphalt most of us run them full size...
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:24 AM
  #1340  
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Ys i am, but..hmm, i where runing 1:12 and we true them down...

but if im running them in full size i will have app 10-12mm in front Chassi - Track

and 8-10 in the rear :S
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:30 AM
  #1341  
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Be careful to not compare 1/12 to 1/10 too closely. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other.

I've always felt like there was more mechanical grip in my 1/12th cars than in my 1/10th - especially since I could actually drive the 1/12th without body but definitely NOT the 1/10th. This would enable the 1/12th to run much lower sidewall tires (trued way down) - the higher the sidewall, the more bite.

This allows 1/12th to run smaller tires (less rotational mass, quicker reaction) and to true their tires to get a specific rollout.

I'd always found that I got less tirewear with my 1/12th as well (except when I ran stupid mod. . . ) so I was also willing to run nubby tires. . . not gonna do that with 1/10th. . .

In any case, the principle holds true for other things. A Thrust Bearing worked perfect for 1/12th but suxxored for 1/10th. . .list goes on.
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:43 AM
  #1342  
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Thank you Boomer, as you can see in my Q im totaly new,and didnt know this..ok, but tru the front tires a little bit? aint that nessecary?, maye sand of the edge´s?
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:52 AM
  #1343  
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If they're coned, they should tell you what you need to do with your camber. They should wear flat - and you should rotate them if one starts getting smaller than the other (usually the predominantly outside tire will wear more than the inside. . .rotate frequently)

If the tires are coned "pointy out" then you need just a bit more negative camber; and vice versa, if they are coned "pointy in" then you have too much negative camber.

These cars, because of their unequal length arms (and fixed lower arm with the Assoc front end) have dynamic camber. When it's right, the tires should be (very) close to level. . .

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Old 05-22-2007, 12:01 PM
  #1344  
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Thomas-I am running 34mm/rev rollout with the Mamba 7700Kv motor (90/16). I don't true tires, but I save a half worn front tire set to race in case they sugar the track. I notice the guys in Germany all were running very short front tires on the sugar water treated track. I rotate the fronts every two runs to keep their diameter and shape the same. I adjust camber to wear the tread flat as possible keeping it within reason (-2to-1). The rears, I rotate less often, maybe every four runs. Reround the edges when the tires are about 1/2 worn or after truing to prevent chunking. Round off the bottom fender corner to prevent chunking. Use Corraly Jack the Gripper.

quote"but if im running them in full size i will have app 10-12mm in front Chassi - Track"
Maybe you mean front chassis height. What you do is space the suspension upwards using Associated #8 Aluminum washers or thin plastic spacers from CRC and set the ride height where you want it.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-22-2007 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 05-22-2007, 06:47 PM
  #1345  
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Hi guys, I used to race Pro10's years ago and have recently got one to have a play with. Could I ask what mmpr I should gear a 9 or 10 turn motor?

If I make a note of what tyres I have to use, could someone tell me what each of them equates to with regard to tyre rating, etc?

Many thanks guys,

Chris.
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:40 PM
  #1346  
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Chris-Use Purple fronts and Pink rears on outdoor asphalt. I'll defer your gearing question to someone else as I have not run a brushed motor in my pan yet.

Thunder Power 2s1p
I have this new 3800mA-h pack in hand. The first cycle was a little lower than specs so I cycled it again on the balancing Charger to make sure it was good and full. Cutoff Voltage was 6.0 V.
Thunder power (Enderland, Korea) 7.18 V 3950 mA-h



AmpMax

I cycled the Amp Max 4000 mA-h Pack that I had up to 160F on discharge.
AmpMax 7.14 V 3905 mA-h after 25 cycles and one hot cycle. This is like new specs .

My second recent ampMax pack with 25 cycles has dropped to less than 66% of capacity after 25 cycles in less than a month. I have returned this pack.

This is the typical new AmpMax 4000 mA-h pack.
AmpMax Pack B 735 seconds at 20 Amps, 4083 mA-h, 7.19 V average

Orion
Orion 3200 mA-h 2S1p Avionics LiPo when new (Kokam, Japan)
20A discharge, 574 seconds, 3194 mA-h, 6.87 V average
The guts of this pack are identical to the graphite edition 3200 mA-h pack. I sold this pack as it was slow in the car as well as in the discharge test. I have data to show that these packs last longer than other brands, but do show a lower average voltage in the beginning.

Apogee
Apogee Magnum 3800 Lithium Manganese LiPo
Average voltage at 20A discharge over a full 3838 mA-h = 7.20 Volts. This is only very slightly under the Scorpion which average 7.25 V after I shortened the leads.

Pack C 20 Amp discharge, 6.94 V average , 3744 mA-h tested when new. Pack A and B tested better when new but deteriorated to about this voltage fairly rapidly with only a few months of age and use. The capacity deteriorated to about 3100 mA-h at present after a few months of hard use.

Scorpion
Scorpion Lithium Cobalt Dioxide Pack 3200 mA-h (Kokam Japan
20 A discharge, 612s, 3400 mA-h, 7.19 V
This pack maintained voltage and capacity extremely well with use and time. I was not doing 35 amp discharge rates with this pack, however, but I did run some mod touring car with it about half the time.

Discharge Temperatures
Amp Max at 20A, 122F, (after 25 cycles)
Thunderpower at 20A, 105F

I decided to start keeping these temperature records as they may be the limiting factor with the hottest brushless motors.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-25-2007 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:35 PM
  #1347  
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Originally Posted by Boomer
If they're coned, they should tell you what you need to do with your camber. They should wear flat - and you should rotate them if one starts getting smaller than the other (usually the predominantly outside tire will wear more than the inside. . .rotate frequently)

If the tires are coned "pointy out" then you need just a bit more negative camber; and vice versa, if they are coned "pointy in" then you have too much negative camber.

These cars, because of their unequal length arms (and fixed lower arm with the Assoc front end) have dynamic camber. When it's right, the tires should be (very) close to level. . .


Here's what to do, true all four of the tires down to about 2.30" diameter. With the oval specific chassis, we run the foams down to about 2.10" before we think about replacing them. Be cure to round the edges also. Running the tires at a smaller diameter will prevent them from chunking as easily and will also provide less rotating mass. This will enable quicker acceleration out of the turns. If the track has a good amount of grip, you might want to lightly coat the outside sidewall of each tire. This will help the chassis from rolling over on the the foam tire's sidewall. It is critical to maintain a consistient ride height from the front to the back. You want to have a slight "pitch" to the front of the car if anything. As stated above, you can adjust the front with thin washers and the rear axle with the axle spacers provided with the kit. Hope that this helps, e-mail me if you have any other questions

-E
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wingman2
Hi guys, I used to race Pro10's years ago and have recently got one to have a play with. Could I ask what mmpr I should gear a 9 or 10 turn motor?

If I make a note of what tyres I have to use, could someone tell me what each of them equates to with regard to tyre rating, etc?

Many thanks guys,

Chris.
9 turns: 3mm timing, 34mm/rev.
10 turns: 3mm timing, 36mm/rev

Tires:
Pink=soft
Magenta=medium
Purple=hard

Best start with pink rears and purple fronts.
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:38 PM
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John, keep the driving and racing reports coming. There's almost no racing around here, so I have to live vicariously.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:51 AM
  #1350  
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Originally Posted by THE DARKSIDE
Here's what to do, true all four of the tires down to about 2.30" diameter. With the oval specific chassis, we run the foams down to about 2.10" before we think about replacing them. Be cure to round the edges also. Running the tires at a smaller diameter will prevent them from chunking as easily and will also provide less rotating mass. This will enable quicker acceleration out of the turns. If the track has a good amount of grip, you might want to lightly coat the outside sidewall of each tire. This will help the chassis from rolling over on the the foam tire's sidewall. It is critical to maintain a consistient ride height from the front to the back. You want to have a slight "pitch" to the front of the car if anything. As stated above, you can adjust the front with thin washers and the rear axle with the axle spacers provided with the kit. Hope that this helps, e-mail me if you have any other questions

-E
What do they come at - 2.5"? That would mean losing almost a quarter of an inch! That's quite a few runs. . .and tires ain't cheap.

One other thing - you NEVER want your rear higher than your front - it should be level or even with just a touch lower than the front. If you have what's called a forward rake, your car will have issues. We've tested it time and again on mid-bite and high-bite asphalt.
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