R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-05-2007, 04:52 PM   #1216
Tech Adept
 
losi nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Parkton (just south of Fayetteville), NC
Posts: 185
Default

Darkside makes the "I Force" a roadcourse pan car
losi nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 05:14 PM   #1217
Tech Addict
 
Toughbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 508
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I looked after you mentioned...

well pantoura is cheaper (if I can find it LOL)
silver graphite (yikes)

and the dark side kit is out of stock as well
__________________
Serdar Aytemiz

Racing since the 20th century
Toughbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 06:30 PM   #1218
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

Heck-all these kits out of stock. I can't get someone to produce mine.
New I-forces will come in black graphite. Some of these smaller companies have guys that go to the big races for a few days at a time. You might need to try and contact again. I have had good luck with car and parts orders from CRC. Their new 1/12 scale car has some custom molded parts. That is a sign that they are getting into bigger numbers. No worries ordering from them.
John
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 08:39 PM   #1219
Tech Elite
 
tallyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: palm city, fl
Posts: 2,594
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

you can build a complete car from the chassis kit offered by powell racing components also.. the entire car will probably go together for around $200 depending on how thrifty a shopper you are.. it's not listed on their site yet as it is still new, but a page or two back you can see his post with pictures or my car with pictures... it's a wide car (235mm) with three shock setup unless your looking for a narrow car (190mm) like the pantoura specifically..
__________________
WWW.STORMERHOBBIES.COM helping keep pan cars alive!

Turns out not where, but who your with that really matters... DMB
tallyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 02:02 AM   #1220
Tech Master
 
Thomas P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sweden/Stockholm
Posts: 1,241
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toughbeard
and the dark side kit is out of stock as well
tip, mail Erik and youl see that the car is in stock, i ordred mine for a week ago. BUT who knows they maybe sold out them agin? test
__________________
Tp-Parts | ARRMA| Nero 6s BLX | Kraton 6s | Kraton SWB 6s | Talion 6s BLX | Granite 6s | Typhon 6s BLXv2 | Senton 6s
Thomas P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 05:10 AM   #1221
Tech Addict
 
Toughbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 508
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

good point. I ll try both companies see who is faster

(I am looking for 190 so 235 is out of question well maybe not depends on my state of mind )

cheerz and thanks everyone..
__________________
Serdar Aytemiz

Racing since the 20th century
Toughbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 05:40 AM   #1222
Tech Adept
 
losi nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Parkton (just south of Fayetteville), NC
Posts: 185
Default

Toughbeard, on the I Force, you gan get as narrow as 185 on the front but only about 193 on the rear with the kit componets. If you come up with a bit narrower dif hub it wouldn't be a problem. But to even get 193 you need to "adjust" (dremel) on the bottom plate of the pod. If you go back to pages 34 & 35 John was good enough to have me post some pics of mine when we were checking how wide it would go in kit form, I have been running mine for a while now at 200mm and can only say that it is a very adjustable car and responds to adjustments noticeably. Hope this helps, I looked at the pantoura also but went with the I Force because of the added features it offers.

Bob
losi nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 05:33 PM   #1223
Tech Master
 
theRED5's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: near Athens,GA
Posts: 1,022
Thumbs up

incredible reading....
__________________
I [I]AM [/I]the Driver !

Murnan Modified Motors

Mugen MRx4

Rocket Science Fuels

Auto Racing, Mountain climbing, and Bull fighting are the only true sports, all the rest are just games.
theRED5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 09:20 PM   #1224
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado, Above The Rest
Posts: 992
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toughbeard
I looked after you mentioned...

well pantoura is cheaper (if I can find it LOL)
silver graphite (yikes)

and the dark side kit is out of stock as well
Not true, I've got them in stock now, have one silver kit one and some black kits also. You can contact me at [email protected]

-Eric
__________________
Team BSR
Team Power Push
Protoform Race Bodies
KSKT Racing - #1 in SK Racing Chassis
Darkside Motorsports - "WE ARE WHAT'S NEXT." - www.darksidems.com
THE DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 09:54 PM   #1225
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

theRed5-Thanks. Good luck with your pan car search. Suppliers and links are listed in my first post of this thread.

Eric-Thanks for the update on the I-force stock.

Note that there are links to some larger pictures of this I-force car in my first post as well as those that LosiNut took of his personal car around page 35.

Small Pinion Gears
Now the bitter news. My stock of old stock 12 tooth Robinson Racing long Titanium Nitride Coated (yellow) hardened steel pinions is now exhausted. These were ideal for the 3.5R as they covered the entire spur and lasted a good time maybe 20 runs or so. I would change it before each of our bimonthly race. Now I have the new stock Robinson racing steel pinion. They look like stainless steel from the color of the worn metal, but I am not sure. They are soft and show significant wear in 3 packs. The wear caused problems with braking and led to a partially stripped gear at my normal settings. I had to reduce braking amount to slippery track settings after I replaced the gears. The Mamba was not very smooth on the brakes with this steel pinion.
I don't see any solution to this gear wear problem except dropping back to the 4.5 R which has no significant gear wear due to being able to use 14 tooth pinions which mesh much better. If you have a source of hardcoated 12T steel pinions please let us know.

Another way to get this 90/12 ratio is with a 128/17 using the Corally steel 17 tooth pinions. Any brakes at all seem to strip this fine pitch gear although most layouts don't need brakes.

Brushless Motor Timing and Poor starts from a stop
I messed with the timing settings on the Mamba Max to see if this had any effect on the car starting backwards a little before correcting itself. I tried 3 setting of timing from highest to lowest. It had no effect. This is just a random thing and depends on where the rotor happens to stop. I think it is just a property of the sensorless beast with no solution.

Pantoura Width
Note the stock CRC Pantoura is 200 mm wide at the back and 185 wide at the front. Other specs and photos are in the first few posts of the thread. The best fit is probably with a tapered 1/10 super car body from HPI.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-06-2007 at 10:07 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2007, 05:14 PM   #1226
Tech Addict
 
Toughbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 508
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DARKSIDE
Not true, I've got them in stock now, have one silver kit one and some black kits also. You can contact me at [email protected]

-Eric
I want the Black one 8D

sent you an email Eric...
__________________
Serdar Aytemiz

Racing since the 20th century
Toughbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2007, 05:17 PM   #1227
Tech Addict
 
Toughbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 508
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
Pantoura Width
Note the stock CRC Pantoura is 200 mm wide at the back and 185 wide at the front. Other specs and photos are in the first few posts of the thread. The best fit is probably with a tapered 1/10 super car body from HPI.
Is that with standart on road tires or touring sytle narrow ones?
__________________
Serdar Aytemiz

Racing since the 20th century
Toughbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2007, 06:48 PM   #1228
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

ToughBeard-That would be with GRP 1/10 pan foam tires. I don't know of any adaptors for this car (or these cars) to run touring car tires.


MAMBA MAX Continued (122F track temp, medium traction).

I ran a couple of runs with the Novak 3.5R motor and the (newest) Robinson Racing 12 tooth steel pinion (but not TiN hardcoated). Brakes were mostly unusable due to combined roughness of the Mamba brakes with the not so smoothly meshed gear. After two runs the spur stripped on acceleration. The pinion showed significant wear. The lack of a hardcoated pinion will be a show stopper for this motor. I won't be changing pinions every run.
I installed the Novak 4.5 R motor in my Prototype number I with the Mamba max system. Some additional quirks of the speed control are more apparent with this motor. There is an occasional short power interuption, (cog, stutter, pause) on corner exit or mid corner. It is more apparent with the 4.5 because this motor is spinning slower and the power interruption is longer in time. This interruption would hardly bother a 4 wd touring car, on corner exit, due to the humongous forward grip causing higher throttle application. With the pan car and the 4.5 R it is rather bothersome, whenever it happens, as it knocks you out of the full hookup you had before the event.

Whenever you knock a flapper board, the Mamba loses the rotor position and the car stops. No flying recoveries is the norm. Only occasionally can you recover.

The system works well under full power and the controller temperatures are reasonably low. 135 F today with a maximum 4.5R motor temperature of 176F. With the 14 tooth pinion I could use light brakes only. The pinion is very smooth, the braking not quite so smooth.

When that new Sphere Comp TC edition becomes available I plan to get it and go back to sensored only motors. I have also sent in my melted GTB for a non warantee replacement. This cost about $90 to replace it with a new one.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-07-2007 at 10:42 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2007, 07:14 PM   #1229
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

note there is a new Mamba report just above

Front Suspesion Prototype I vs Prototype II

I have had a full oportunity to test the second prototypes front suspension in the pic at the right and have compared it to the original prototype I in the pic at the left. I have tried several springs on Prototype II. Inline and trailing axles. Many roll center Adjustments and Camber adjustments. I adjusted ackerman the same as prototype I. The verdict is in. The first prototype front suspension is just a little more glued to the track. Passing the stock 1/8 Nitro cars type of "hooked up". The second front suspension was good. Absolutely no blowovers. Easy to adjust, but I always seemed to have just a little too much steering or not quite enough. Never the perfect amount that makes the car fly around the track. It was as good in the corners as the modified Associated front suspension (long king pins, shocks) but not better in the corners; much better on the straight. Prototype I is just better than II when the pivot balls are hardcoated and free. When the pivot balls are worn the two become about the same.

So what is the difference between the two. Where is the magic? This is what I think. When you read the big car race books on how to construct this upright or caster block, they suggest pivot points widely spaced in the wheel. Upper pivot high and out for the best control of camber. This is one advantage of Prototype I. The upper outer pivot is high inside the wheel.

Shock position. It seems the closer the shock/spring is to the actual bump event the better they work. Prototype one has the lower shock mount almost at the kingpin. This is also a big advantage of the 3-link rear end.

There is a little more negative camber gain on the Prototype I, with roll, as the arm length difference is higher than in Prototype II.

There might be other reasons also, but this is what comes to mind.

Note that any front suspension with a shock would be better on my track than an undampened front end as far as the blowovers are concerned. I have a lot of testing here. Twin dynamic A-arms are superior to a dynamic strut here as well.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-suspension-prototype-i.-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-suspension-prototype-ii-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-07-2007 at 07:40 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2007, 09:24 PM   #1230
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,159
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

John is the different handling characteristics of the front end cause from the long arm verses short arm?

Thanks,
Joe
__________________
https://www.gofundme.com/ncontrol
Joe Maxey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks John Stranahan Electric On-Road 839 11-01-2011 04:31 PM
Xray T2R, 2100 mah 2c LiPo, and Mabuchi power: Tech tips and Tricks gacjr0 Electric On-Road 46 11-18-2007 10:09 AM
tips and tricks XXX-NT streetstock Electric Off-Road 2 05-13-2005 10:50 AM
Tips & Tricks Steevo Electric On-Road 54 08-08-2003 10:09 PM
Tips And Tricks rctc3 Electric On-Road 36 03-10-2002 10:54 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:50 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net