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Old 09-14-2006, 08:07 AM   #106
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another thing i forgot to mention John. As it sounds like you start out pretty dialed and lose rear grip as the run goes on, you should switch to the CRC low roll center kit (p/n 4260) for the rear pivot and side links. We all run it on the carpet knife 12th car (same rear suspension) as it greatly improves how long the car holds rear grip and also adds a little side bite and stability in the rear end as well. It is a very noticeable change in the 12th car on carpet, so i can only assume the same for you being that you are on a lower grip surface.

here's a link - http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...prodID=7718849

there's no pic, but it consists of a new football piece (it's counter sunk on the bottom to get it as low as possible), new pivot ball, side link balls, screws, nuts, & detailed instructions.

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Old 09-14-2006, 08:46 AM   #107
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Pro-ten-Holland - Thanks. I have tried different front tires, but only have pink magenta and purple at this time. Note that corner exit spins got worse with a harder tire, but mid corner spins were less frequent with a harder tire and only occur now when the sauce wears off. The corner exit spin problem is solved. Might need a tire slightly harder than purple now that I am saucing part of the front tire. I can also go to .024 front spring. The front axle nuts nylon lock barely engages the threads fully as is. Not sure I can go wider. Are your suggested shims to go inside the inner part of the axle by removing the axle from the steering block?

That low roll center kit might help me. I ordered one up. Thanks for the links. I took a look at the thrust bearing, It looks like you should still use the Bellville washers with it just like in Losi Diffs. Are there enough threads to do this. I do see that it is more succeptible to dirt entry than using the standard bearing which has seals.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-18-2006 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 09-14-2006, 02:46 PM   #108
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New blue stuff from IRS

The axle is graphite and lighter than the original piece. The best feature is probably the left double clamping hub that should run in balance. This might be helfpful at high speed. I have also had trouble with the left hub coming loose because of vibration on the track. You need to tighten the crap out of the single set screw. Yes it will indent the axle. I thought of using blue locTite on it.

The hubs have lightening cutouts. The rings are the new D-ring kind and will not slip on the hub or diff flange. I don't particularly care for the plastic Diff nuts. The problem with it is that plastic flows under pressure, so the diff is never tight when I go to run the car after a couple of days rest. I prefer a Blue Aluminum 8 x 32 axle nut for the Associated TC3 which is also very light. The threads are engaged by metal so there is no plastic flow. Replace as it gets loose.

I don't know if this is going to fit my car yet. I'll report back.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-irs-rear-axle-017.resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-irs-rear-axle-019-hubs-resized.jpg  
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:29 PM   #109
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Install of the IRS components went well. They fit fine. Only one problem; the new kit takes 1/12 scale Bellville washers or cone washers. I did have one on hand and opened up a couple of Losi cone washers until I get some more in. Here is a pic. Diff is very smooth with the center ball bearing instead of a bushing. I don't need these new parts just bought them so I would have some ready spares.

Note that Calandra also sells the blue stuff. They have Bellville washers in stock although they are hard to find on the Web site. The IRS kit came without these essential washers.
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-irs-rear-axle-installed-002-resized.jpg  
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Old 09-14-2006, 05:12 PM   #110
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John, this may interest you.... It's my setup on my 12th scale, sorry for the really crappy pic I was between digi camera's when I took it with a web cam, I had to search the 12th scale forum to find it...

It's an HPI 4x9x4mm thrust bearing with the CRC aerodiff collar... I have relatively the same setup on my 10L2 and L3t but with the cone backwards.

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Old 09-14-2006, 07:06 PM   #111
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Default Test Drive: SpeedMerchant SpeedSpec

Today was the first day I tested my new 1/10 pan car, the "SpeedSpec" from Speedmerchant. Kit is simple and cheap looking, and seems to be an entry-level kit. At least it comes 75% pre-assembled!!! Damping: used 30wt oil, and loose seeting side springs. Used shims in front for xtra caster. For the body, I used the Pro-Line Protoform Lola body and it fit nicely. Motor and ESC: NOvak GTB w/ 4.5R, geared with 100t Spur and 19 pinion. The kit rode on Jaco Pink in the rear, and Jaco purple in the front. Track was med size asphalt, mixed set up, and temp about 90F. Track was med traction, with light sugar water coating for a bit of help on the traction.Pblm was on the a few bumpy sections of the track, where the car gets unstable and shakes a bit...got any ideas on what the pblms could be and possible fixes?

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Old 09-14-2006, 07:39 PM   #112
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Looking for new 200mm bodies to experiment with on my pan car. Love the Serpent GTP 200mm #170016. Stormerhobbies has some nice options but they are hardly in stock...where can I get something like the serpent style body that actually has them in stock!?
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Old 09-14-2006, 07:48 PM   #113
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YYhayyim-Sounds like you had a good run. I was a bit confused about my caster at first. When you put washers to the front (Associated Front End), the upper arms moves forward you get less caster, 0 caster with two washers up front. On your solid front end increasing caster is as you describe. Get a Robinson racing 16 tooth pinion or go with 48 pitch.


I have trouble in the bumps from the chassis dragging. Check the bottom of your chassis and look for drag marks and report back. If so you need to stiffen things up or raise your chassis height. Otherwise eventually you will wear through the back edge of the front pan.

I like that Serpent GTP body. I am going to see if my Hobby shop will order it.

VTL 1180 ny- Thanks for the thrust bearing link and the pic

RC Photography
No apologies needed for photos. I do a little photography work for one of the RC Magazines. I will give a couple of secrets away, though. Take the pictures indoors or in the shade outdoors. Look for a macro mode setting on the camera (usually symbolized by a flower). This lets you Focus up close. Use the self timer to take the picture while resting the camera on a box or tripod. Better if you don't have to touch the camera. This gets rid of camera shake. I use a little fluorescent table light (OTT Lite) for some quick shots plus the room light. This is the same light you see in the pits sometimes. I rest the camera on a box and use a postit pad to angle it down. I do it right here at the desk. Use the manual mode (M) or Arpeture Priority Mode (A) and set the F-stop to F 4.8, otherwise the camera chooses a faster shutter speed and wide open lens; then the near and far objects are out of Focus. Play with the EV to get the right darkness. It takes about 30 seconds longer to do a picture this way than to just snap one and let the camera choose everything.
The last IRS pic was not a quicky shot.
This pic is a quick shot with the camera on a box and postit pad.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-22-2006 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:31 PM   #114
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Default Pantoura

John Stranahan: just ordered a pantoura from CRC. Love the inline battery design and 6 cell capability. Have you checked if the orion 4800 lipo packs fit the chassis OK? What;s the lipo pack dimensions you are currently using or the biggest you've tried that fits so far? Also, is the chassis made out of fiberglass or carbon fiber? Can Camber be adjusted?
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:53 PM   #115
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YY hayyim- Check this post that I made previously on this thread

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...nt#post2619237

I don't think the Orion 4700 LiPo will fit. It might be too tall. You don't need this much capacity becasue the traction of the tires falls off at about 9 minutes. I would get the Orion 3200 pack from the Avionics division to do the least modifications to the car. Good luck with the new car.
Chassis is Graphite, Front camber is adjustable.

My battery is from Apogee but I have modified it by removing the lexan stiffeners and the shrink wrap followed by the new blue shrink.

This is the Avionics LiPo actually for sale.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXNLJ8&P=7

5th Session
101 F air temp 133 F track temp. track had been dry for 3 days and fairly clean.

Best Run 9:00 minutes with Purple front Pink rear. Corally Jack the gripper soaked for 20 minutes on the rear and only 1/2 of the front tire treated, No coppertone. I had better forward traction with this pink rear tire and Jack the Gripper than previously with the white rear. I had slightly less cornering traction with pink than the white rear with Paragon, but then I don't really like the stronger tire treatments for Health reasons so this was a relief to be able to change to Jack the Gripper.

I increased the front spring to a .024. This helped lengthen my track time a little. Motor temp was 147F. This was after a 6 minute run. This hotter motor temp shows that I am hooking up better and also that it was hot as hell today.

A couple of unsuccesful experiments
3 ten minute applications of Jack the Gripper followed by Coppertone on a White rear. Never really hooked up. I think the tire got too soft.

10 minutes of Wintergreen Heavy Paragon 10 minutes of Coppertone. The tire was too soft from the previous treatment. It did not hook up today, but was very fast previously with this treatment for 5:45.

Tire Wear
The white rear has lost .1 inch of diameter in very smooth even wear. I think my runs ended previously when the treated layer wore off. The front is unworn.

IRS Rear Axle
The clamp on IRS hub was a true delight when I had to change rear ride height. The axle is completely undamaged. The rest of the kit worked well.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-15-2006 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:14 PM   #116
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This is the longest a Pan car thread has lasted in the on road forum... Bring Back the 1/10th scale pan cars!!!
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:17 PM   #117
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THanks John! Another question...can you adjust camber on the Pantoura? I had a pblm with my previous car that the left front wheel wore out on the outside, while the right front was even, meaning it needs some more negative camber on the left front. hopefully it can be adjusted somehow, or i'll have to rotate tires after every run.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:18 PM   #118
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It's pretty much a 10th scale version of the Carpet Knife....
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:25 PM   #119
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I don't have a pan car (would consider getting one if local interst increase). My last was an RC10L... But I have enjoyed the reading. Keep it up John.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:23 PM   #120
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Thanks for the posts. Plan to keep it up for a while.

Yes Camber is adjustable. There is a small tie rod on the upper A-arm that can be used to adjust camber on the Pantoura. See the photo below.

Caster
For the next session I decreased Static Caster from four (all spacers to the back) to about 3 degrees using steel spacers instead of the teflon ones. One spacer is .030 and one is about .010 inch. The .030 spacer is to the back. The .010 to the front. I had assembly problems with the teflon ones due to the fact that the pin is a tight fit and there is no way to see if the teflon spacer is centered. One bump with the pin while the spacer is off center and the spacer is deformed causing friction.
With the current car setup and tire treatment I could use a little more corner entry steering traction and less corner exit steering traction. A little less caster should accomplish this. I will also go back to the .022 spring from the .024 for more mid corner steering traction. If I am lucky they will treat the track tomorrow. Depends on the rain forecast. Hope my tires are not too soft for a treated track.

Robert had some nice looking graphite look stickers on his servo today. Looked nice. I think I can add this treatment to my ugly battery brace to improve its appearance.

In the picture you can see the camber adjustment tie rod on the upper A-arm. You can see the two spacers on the inner hinge pivot that I am using to adjust caster. I have the 5 degree reactive caster block installed. This should decrease caster slightly with roll (1 degree less or so). You can also see the tiny front spring at the very bottom of the kingpin that I have been changing. The diameter is the same as a ball point pen spring which is a .014 inch size.
This is the Associated RC12 front end which I thought was typical on these cars. It seems the speed spec has an older solid front end. Hard to tell in their photo. Note that if you pop the full screen button at top when you select one of my photos that they will be full size with no scroll bars.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-associated-front-suspension-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-15-2006 at 05:55 PM.
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