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Old 04-26-2007, 01:30 AM   #1171
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any1 no where i can get a cheap lipo battery in australia
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:59 AM   #1172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCLocos
My pan car is on the way thanks to Mr. Stranahan!
What and where are you planning to run it??
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Old 04-26-2007, 06:42 AM   #1173
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john if you have a scale setup it would be interesting to see corner weights on your car to see how they compare with the lipo batts and rear mounted esc to a more traditional setup.. i have a pretty tricky little scale deal so i'll check mine today...
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Old 04-26-2007, 07:13 AM   #1174
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these are just a couple shots of my setup tweak/corner weight system using one postal scale. the "table" area is at the smame height as the scale's surface.. i am getting ~231g left and right in the front and ~302g left and right in the rear.. i say aproxamitly because i have not had the time to truely balance the car left to right. i am not positive but i belive there is more weight on the right side of the pod then the left as the motor is off center plus diff and long hub.. i'll have to dissasemble to check (my rc10l3T was virtually perfect here).. are the 10l2's this way? total vehicle weight sans body is 1170g 2lb 9.3oz.. with 3300's gtb/4.5 xxl rec
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-setup.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-setup2.jpg  
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Last edited by tallyrc; 04-26-2007 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:47 AM   #1175
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Andy-I have no battery source in Australia, You can Web order from MaxAmps.com which is where I am getting mine now.



TallyRC-I have had my car on the scales. With body on it is 8 ounces heavier in the back. I'll get a weight body off to compare with yours. Side to side weights are balanced. The pod off the car is balanced. I have a slight corner weight problem as I have the servo by itself now. it is off to one side. I tweak this out on the MIP tweak station.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 04-26-2007 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:08 AM   #1176
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Here are some numbers from my car body off.

Front 14.6 oz, 370 g

Rear 21.4 oz , 543 g

6.8 oz more in the rear (172 g).

I use two scales now as the tweak is very sensitive to the height difference of the shim stack or support on the one scale setup. The beams are stacked along with a 7/16 bar at the rear and the two scales are put at the front to get corner weights.

TallyRC your car is 5.7 ounces heavier in the back. Thanks for the numbers and the pics. I had a setup very similar to yours with 3 home made pedestals for the other 3 tires.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-scales-front-back-weight-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-5-touring-car-setup-set-front-corner-weights-even-compressed.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 04-26-2007 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:24 PM   #1177
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Trinity N60

Here is a pic of the guts of the N60. Note the interesting construction of the can. There is no core (slots)on the windings. They appear to be wound on a mandrel. Glued together and then inserted in the can. This is similar to coreless servo motor construction. The wire is quite a bit smaller than the Novak wire. If it is a 3 turn then I am sure many wires are in parallel. Both bearings are a large Inner Diameter. Probably 5 mm. They measure .196 inch ID (maybe 11mm on the OD)

the arm is supposed to be sintered although this is hidden by the black band. The two end rings do show an expoxy balance.

Note the enbell is threaded and then secured from rotation with a little setscrew that will cock things a little crooked. There are only 4 mounting holes so an adjustment may be needed to orient the leads in a workable direction. It is my understanding that Anular bearings can accept a small amount of angular innacuracy due to the shape of the grooves.

Doug-I don't see how I am going to keep from running this puppy with the Mamba. Tell me what kind of car your friend is having bad luck with.

Installed Weight Mamba MAX and Trinity N60
I installed the motor and weighed the car again. It is down to 39.8 ounces now with Mamba and Trinity N60 motor. This motor is a full ounce lighter than the Novak (without the sensor harness wires). A production model of my prototype car will be lightened a little. This puts the car in a better position to run heavy NiMH cells. The published lower limit for the class is about 42.3 ounces, I believe, based on the IFMAR rules for the class. With a 6 ounce weight penalty added on for LIPO it will weigh about what a Corally C10x weighs.

The motor runs fine on the bench. When you spin the armature by hand you feel almost no interaction between the magnet and the windings due to lack of a core (or stack). I probably will try a 93/12 gear on the motor as it is supposed to be 1/2 turn less wind. 96/12 is about as low as I can go with 48 pitch gears. The 64 pitch do not hold up on my track. I am having some trouble lining up the leads. That setscrew that secures the front endbell needs to be tight or the motor can will move around from the torque.

John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-trinity-n60-003-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-01-2007 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 04-26-2007, 04:55 PM   #1178
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Hi John

I believe he is running it in a Hotbodies Cyclone TC. Not sure of his gearing or anything else.
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:16 PM   #1179
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Doug-Then I have a very good chance that I won't have the same problem. Amp draw out of the corners is considerably less on the pan. I'll see.

Note that I added text to the end of my previous post.

The N60 has two paired sets of screw holes 180 degrees apart on the endbell. I tried several ways to mount it in the pan. It would go in with the wire leads straight forward (with the endbell on tight), or it would go like the pic with the enbell loose and held in place only by the little setscrew. I decided to shim the endbell with two thicknesses of Postit pad paper. This let me tighten the endbell hard onto the paper (with channel locks). Tighten the setscrew medium tight to secure things. This screw will mess up the big thread if you make it too tight. Well I am happy now. Note the pink shim in the photo.

The leads forward would have worked, but would cause me to run the batteries farther forward and would create a puncture hazard for the LiPo in a crash.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-trinity-n60-shim-001.jpg  
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:22 PM   #1180
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John: glad to see you like the mamba + N60 combo. The weight savings is amazing, and power and flexibility of the mamba max esc will really help in tuning your system to what you need it to do. The key to the mamba max esc is how you set it up: never play with the throtle curve for mod. Leave it stock(linear), or drag it down just a bit at the 50-60 mark.

Punch control: start at setting 4
Start power: try 3, then 4
Motor Timing: start with normal setting

the other settings you set to what you need...Also remember to calibrate your radio to the ESC before running it...that should be it...its great to see people's faces when you show up to the track with a laptop, usb hooked up to the car, and tweaking what you need the esc/motor to do from your computer...enjoy.

Also, check out the Mamba Max thread on rc tech. And for any questions, speak with master tech support for Castle, Mr. Joe Ford. He the best with these systems, and will answer any questions quickly. They have really good tech support and service, if you need it...
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Old 04-27-2007, 05:34 PM   #1181
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yyhayyim-Thanks for the post. What car and what gear ratio are you running that Mamba with N60 in.

TRACK REPORT (traction poor, lots of dust improving with each pack never got quite to medium traction) Air Temp 75F

Mamba Max + Trinity N60
I started out with the above setup geared 93/12 (smallish tires), rollout 22.
The motor felt very soft. Reminded me of my first runs with the 3.5R before it was geared right. Motor came off the track at 164F after a full pack, Speed Control 122F.

I changed gears to 96/12, rollout 21.6. The motor felt better. Top speed was better; hookup was better; mid throttle punch was better but not good. Motor Temp 186F, speed control temp 130 after a full new pack. The higher motor temperature was from a better hookup, just starting to get the proper front to back weight transfer. I still felt like I needed one more step lower gearing. I could not accomplish this with 48 pitch gears. The spur is already getting to be small tire sized. Drag Brake was weak at 20%, manual braking was not possible yet due to dust.

Mamba Max + Novak HV 3.5R
Gear 90/12 , rolout 23.
This was like putting an old friend back in the car. I got back my wicked fast acceleration mid straights after the rear wing starts to really load up the rear tire and I can jam on the throttle fairly quickly. If we had put some instruments on the long straight we would have found out that both motors achieved similar top speeds, but the Novak 3.5 R would have a significantly lower elapsed time because there is so much more in the middle. Note that I think the Trinity needed a lower gear than possible. Mamba Max 130F, GTB 3.5R temp 151F. This was the fastest run with the best traction.

Mamba Max vs GTB
Both controllers worked very similarly on my track when using the same Novak HV 3.5 R motor. Part throttle control was good, Braking was smooth and sufficient. Drag brake was a little weak at 20 % with the Mamba, but I can turn this up just a bit. I used about 65% brakes on the radio on my two hairpins (Mamba at 100%) after I had run 4 packs to clean the track.
The only trouble the Mamba had was starting from a dead stop. I saw the car actually move backwards a bit once. Once it stuttered and then started. I don't really think this is a drawback as it corrects itself so fast (milliseconds). You only should be stopped once at the start of the main if you use Ifmar starts.

I missed those two ounces of traction on the back of my car. Putting the Novak motor helped a little here as well.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 04-27-2007 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 04-28-2007, 06:19 AM   #1182
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John, i must say WOW, i have almost read every single word and i like it. Good to have guys like you in the sport, to bad this class do not exist in Sweden . But ive just bought a I-Force and i think it will be real fun to mess with my Nitro friends

Just woundering John, have you looked under the heatzink on the GTB?. I was planning to convert mine to a "4 cell" GTB with just a thin alu plate...But the socalled thermalpaste is one big laugh the zink never ever touch the electroincs,and this paste isolating the HEAT and not transfering it that i should( prettyfamiliar with overclocking processor etc, ) i used articsilver thermalpaste,did a dustframe and i must say the tranfering is way better now.

I used to run this in my L4 car 5.5r and i think my IR said app 65-75 c degrees,but in reality way higher..(used it outdoor run 88/37 app 64 Rollout).

Cant wait to read more on this

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Old 04-28-2007, 09:59 AM   #1183
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Thomas-Thanks. I have not had the GTB heatsink off. The heatsink on my sphere comp did pop off with the lid when the unit fried. The heat control tape holding the heatsink to the lid was outstanding and still in good shape. I know what you mean about that heat control paste under the lid. After some use it probably recedes from the heatsink. This is what the sphere comp looked like anyway.

John
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Old 04-28-2007, 10:07 AM   #1184
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May i ask why you fried it? was it to heavy geared?

wich one of theese 2 do you prefer? Novak GTB or the LRP Sp
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Old 04-28-2007, 10:14 AM   #1185
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The spere comp gave me very good and long service with a Novak 4.5R motor. It did not last very long when I used a 3.5R motor with it. It seems like when I bought the unit the listed motor use was unlimited, but afterwards The Web site listed the 4.5 as the strongest motor it should be used with. I notice that now there will be a TC edition spere comp. I would certainly wait and get it if I wanted a Sphere comp. The GTB gave me pretty good service with a 3.5R in the Pan car. It eventually fried when a motor bearing seized. With 4 cells there should be less heat to deal with. Note that on both of these units the internal protection failed. (Notice also the reflexive tense, it fried as opposed to I fried it.)

So right now it is GTB or Mamba Max

John
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