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Old 03-16-2007, 12:48 AM   #1021
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Trackdesigner71. No offense taken. I get corrected regularly. I hope you got my private message. Thanks for the note.

I am building a second wide pan car to get all the dimensions of the pod more accurate and to improve symmetry a little (This will also be the platform for the 4S LiPo plus Tekin R1Pro). This time I just used a narrow pod to give me some more space on the left side. The right side of the pod will be at the same place as a wide pods right side so no extended pinion will be needed. I really like the looks and stiffness and low center of gravity of the low frame rail better so that is how I will attach the Panhard Bar. New Hubs are coming. I am going to try a 1/2 inch super short left hub to lighten the rotating mass. This will require a custom spacer on the left side and leave me with more clearance on the shocks. Shocks will be forward of the axle. This hub may require wheel removal to tighten it on the axle. No biggie. Pics in a week or so. I am using a little thicker lower pod plate material in Fiberglass Phenolic Laminate (G10). The screws can then be countersunk without weakening that one weak screw so much.

By the way that left side hub really needs blue locktite regardless of what type you have on the screws that secure it to the axle. It will come loose otherwise and cause you grief.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-16-2007 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:51 AM   #1022
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I did thanks...I just wanted to do so publicly after getting absolutely tore up by a certain poster known only at B.A.T. Racing
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:59 AM   #1023
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Please disregard that private message from BAT racing. My apologies. Probably my fault for mixing that stuff happening on Marties thread with my remarks to you on the same post. I should have separated those two thoughts better.
John
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:47 PM   #1024
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Trackdesigner. BTW, I never saw the message so I could not comment on it.

Work continues on the new wide pan car. It is basically going to be the second in a series but a bit wider and longer with some beneficial minor changes.

The pic shows the new upper shock mount. I have left a little more material so that I could countersink the tire side and use a flat head screw with Losi Ball Nuts (resized to .157 inch). Once in a while the nuts on the former car would contact the tire in the crashes and cause some roughness on the inside edges. Not during normal driving. This gives me more clearance. The car now has a narrow pod. This gives me much needed room for the lower rear shock mount on the left side. No mods to the left side pod plate are needed now. The right pod plate is in the same location a wide pod would be. The slight disadvantage is the need to loosen two upper pod plate screws to remove the motor. This is normal on a narrow pod. I don't do that very often with this brushless system.

The battery strap is now more flexible. This allows me to R &R the battery without undoing any screws. One tape strap will hold the front of the LiPo and the front of the battery strap. I have room on this version of the Pantoura Chassis to mill in a tape slot for a neater install. The chassis is about 1/16 inch wider on each side than my more recent pantoura. Things are looking good. The rear end is essentially complete. I'll see if my Nephew James will machine me some nice aluminum bits to mount the Panhard bar (Track Bar) to both cars. He is coming for a visit.

Since Marty is working on the rear shock version, I may make another inquiry into producing this front shock version. It was so hooked up last weekend that little improvements need to be made. Should have a similar situation this weekend. Jeff has applied the sugar 3 days in advance of our club race as an experiment. I am sure he plans to just add hot water to it Sunday. This seems to give medium traction with little tire wear.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-235-290-mm-car-002-rear-quarter-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-31-2007 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 02:35 PM   #1025
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John, I will keep you to that promiss! It will be very interesting to see what your design will do back to back to mine!
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Old 03-17-2007, 03:21 PM   #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losi nut
I'm going to try the 190 width first. I have a really neat Tamiya LC 70 Courage LMP body on the way,and it is 190. But I will probably try the others as well. It is a really nice kit.

Bob
It may be a little late but I have the LC70 body and I did a test install on my 10L3T which I imagine isn't a whole lot different to the I-force at the back. The right rear tyre is fine as the body is molded to fit around the spur gear on the F103gt and also fits around the spur gear on the 10L3T. The left side though isn't as nice and a tyre at 57mm will rub on the body. There is a small bump but it just touches. When I get some time and the weather warms up a bit, I'm going to see if I can find a jam container or something and a heat gun and massage the little lump so it will fit around the wheel.
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Old 03-17-2007, 07:56 PM   #1027
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OK John, here are the pics of my I Force, I hope you find them interesting.

Bob
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-im001385.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-im001387.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-im001391.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-im001392.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-im001389.jpg  

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Old 03-17-2007, 08:15 PM   #1028
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Here's the parts list of what's in the kit, some quality stuff. I hope it's readable
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-im001395.jpg  
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:09 AM   #1029
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Greasemonkey-thanks for the details on the body.

Bob- Really nice. Thanks for the good pics. Tell us how it goes when you run it.


I ran my wide car today. We had quite a crew there for practice. My car was running laps as fast as the 1/8 scales on average in spite of heavy pollen on the track, faster than the 1/10 scale Nitros. Lin's 1/8 scale still had the record fast lap for the day. We cleaned rewatered the sugar and had fair traction but it deteriorated over the afternoon as more pollen was dropping from the trees. The car had thick yellow pollen dust after a run on the body and chassis. My tire size experiments were more or less useless because of deteriorating conditions. I did do one set of experiments. The Track timer was calling out lap times out loud over the PA. I tried brakes and no brakes on the two hairpins. Brakes gave me consistently faster times by about .4 seconds per lap. I picked up .2 seconds on each hairpin by going in hot aplying good braking and making the turn tight compared to going in medium wide with a gentle radius. This was easy to tell with your laptimes out there in front of God and everyone.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-19-2007 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 03-18-2007, 07:35 AM   #1030
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If you're after a race software that calls out your name and lap times for you. Try alycat. http://www.alycat.com/index.html

Our track has just started running the free version as a trial and so far it seems much nicer than the one we currently have. The bitching Betty gets annoying after a while but it's not too bad.

It also accepts personal transponders which is something our current software doesn't do.
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Old 03-18-2007, 07:37 AM   #1031
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we've been using alycat for years and love it..
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Old 03-18-2007, 05:49 PM   #1032
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I don't know which track time annoumcer program we use but the guy sounds just like our race director which is odd somtimes when you see him walking around and also on the P.A. This is a very helpful device. I wish someone would build it in to the radio with an earplug.



Race Report- Heavy Pollen. I lacked steering. I went to two sizes weaker front springs. This helped. I started tinkering with the Panhard bar (track bar). I raised it by the thickness of a large 4-40 nut. This raised the rear roll center. This helped only a little. I probably should have raised it about double that amount. I qualified in the middle of the 1/10 scale Nitro fourwheel drives and also in the middle of the 1/8 scale spec class. The four wheel drives had an edge today as did the young but experienced drivers. Not bad for two wheel drive though. I could have probably used some Magenta fronts. I used Purple fronts Pink rears on the asphalt as usual. They came off the track with yellow tread.

We added hot water to the previously sugar water treated track. There was a couple of hours before racing began which allowed the pollen to reaccumulate. Better to do the treatment closer to the race if it's dusty or full of pollen in the air.

Something electronic gave up the ghost. In the last heat the car slowed to a stop twice and recovered after 3-5 or so excruciating seconds. It may be the motor bearing or the speed control. That is just plain weird. Speed control and motor temperatures were both about 150 F after the second heat so I did not expect any thermal shutdown problems. I did dump a pack at the end of the first heat. This might be a battery issue or a motor bearing issue. The batts and motor were going 11-12 minutes when new with medium traction. I have to investigate.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-27-2007 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:37 PM   #1033
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Post Race tests. I tested my 2 packs of AmpMax 4000 mA-h packs. One was at 3600 mA-h Down from over 4000 mA-h and 6.84 V (down from 7.15 V) average volts on a 20 A discharge. The second was at 3038 mA-h down from over 4000 and average 6.84 V. This second pack is the pack that dumped on me. So I am using about 3000 mA-h in a 5 minute race plus 3 practice laps. This is a higher rate than previously due to better forward traction of the car. I should note that this second pack may have been damaged some by letting it sit plugged into the car overnight. I am not sure which pack got this abuse though. I use these packs a lot so they have quite a few cycles.

These are the original numbers when the two packs were new. I have been using them since January 3 ,2007. I have between 50 and 70 runs on each pack.

AmpMax Pack A 746 seconds at 20 Amps, 4144 mA-h, 7.16 V average
AmpMax Pack B 735 seconds at 20 Amps, 4083 mA-h, 7.19 V average

The motor bearing smelled burnt from the inside when I dissasembled the motor. The windings did not. The bearing had grit in it. I cleaned it and it was better but still rough. I replaced it. This may have caused my stalling problem as the speed control may have had a partial thermal shutdown. Previously this would not correct itself and required turning the speed control off then on, so I am not sure. Novak GTB with Novak 3.5R.

AvidRC.com has this bearing now for $1.00 (3/16 x 1/2 inch). I may try a couple. I plan to run the replacement with grease instead of oil. I have a suspicion that oiling from the outside is aiding dirt entry into the bearing. I have been cleaning the area with a Q-tip but this is not helping enough. The metal seal has a tiny snap ring which is easy to remove with an X-acto knife to help in adding grease (from the inside).
John

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Old 03-21-2007, 06:39 PM   #1034
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Work continues on the front suspension for the new Wide Pan car. I received some new parts. The steering arm and a 5 degree caster block are from an Associated B4 (30 degrees caster with kickup on a B4). A 0 degree is available. The axle will work with our pan car wheels with just a bearing upsize to 3/16 x 5/16 flanged. I have aluminum axles on the way. The arms are for a Losi Mini-T. I bushed the holes in the B4 parts with a 1/8 inch O.D. brass tube that happened to have a good ID for the Mini-T pins. I have a suspension block drawn up that will give me a shock mount position slightly higher than the upper arm and outbord of its pivot. This will take advantage of some space that exist under the GTP bodies in the front wheel well area while providing a slightly better shock angle. I have more steering throw in both directions with these parts than with the home-made front suspension I am using now. Ball pivots on the outboard side of the steering arms are eliminated.

We are in the process of machining some new Panhard bar mounts. The frame extension in G10 has proven to be very rugged allowing this change.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-left-side-finished-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-suspension-mockup-cropped.jpg  
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Old 03-22-2007, 10:26 AM   #1035
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Means your car should get even lighter and more solid, right?

SWEET!
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