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Old 03-02-2007, 07:56 PM   #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush
John, isn't the axle the same width as that of a 12th scale? Once the carpet track is in, it would be nice to develop a rear and front end for that.
The pods on narrow pan cars are often the same size as a 1/12th but the axles are different. A 1/10th uses a larger flange for larger diff washers and a longer diff side of the axle due to the diff side hub being longer then a 1/12th hub.
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Old 03-04-2007, 06:59 PM   #977
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1/10th and 1/12th use different size tires as well as hubs and axles.


I have a suggestion to help with the panhard rod. It would be better if you made the graphite stick out just a bit more where the panhard rod mounts on the pod. Then eliminate the plastic block and mount the panhard rod with a vertical female threaded ballstud and shims.
Then eliminate the graphite ear on the aluminum ear where the panhard mounts. Then put a ballstud upside down to mount the panhard rod vertically.

This will eliminate a few pieces and give you ultra precise panhard rod adjustment. As I'm sure you know panhard rod height directly controls rear roll center height, so its extremely important to be able to adjust it, to tune the balance of the car.

However, it looks like you would have to make 2 new parts in order to change it.
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Old 03-04-2007, 08:07 PM   #978
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floodo1-Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that the Panhard rod should be adjustable on a production version. The rear roll center is at its center. On my other car I can shim the mounts up or down. I found that I liked the Panhard bar as low as it would go on asphalt which is dragging the ground on full bump. That is where it is now on this narrow car. Level at ride height with body on, rubbing the ground at full bump. The Traxxas Jato Aluminum tie rod that I am using has a fairly custom size ball. I did not find ballstuds to match. I do need this larger size, though. I tried 4-40 ball studs and heavy duty ball cups on the other car and the cups quickly stretched out and developed play which caused imprecise steering. The Larger Traxxas balls and rod ends are needed. I have even used the even stronger (wider) Revo rod ends on my upper link which takes the most stress. The mount on the right side can be shimmed up. It is cut from a Losi JRXS pivot pin mount and has one screw and one pin. I would have to redo the left side to make it adjustable. When we get the carpet track I'll see if I need a new position.

That graphite tear drop on the left side is a crash part meant to save the rest of the Panhard bar mount. It also stiffens the part left to right. The damaging crash would be airborne followed by a hard landing on the left rear corner. Side crashes are not a problem. I also don't want a direct attachment of the Panhard bar to the lower pod plate for reasons of crash survival. There has to be some give to the Panhard bar mounts. I don't want to break the expensive lower pod plate.

I would make a second lower pod plate with longer tabs to give me more room. This is the first attempt.

The question on the 1/12 scale is how much room is there between the left tire and the left motor pod plate and the right tire and the spur. I would guess it is smaller in both cases than my 200 mm car but if the tires are narrow enough it may be the same. I have .56 inches between the spur and the right side tire. This is a limiting factor. .26 inch between the leftside tire and the motor pod. That is tight as well. I did not get my hands on a 1/12 car yet as the on-road track was "dusted out" this weekend.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-05-2007 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-04-2007, 08:28 PM   #979
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Toyota GT1 by Hotbodies
Time for a new body on the wide pan car. Here is a link to a large picture of the full size car.
http://www.gtplanet.net/guides/image...Race_Car_2.jpg

http://www.gtplanet.net/guides/image...r_Backfire.jpg

In contrast to Formula 1, Mercedes found (after their blowovers) that the wide sports car body draws air for the underneath rear venturis that supply most of the downforce from the wheel openings and under the sides rather than uder the dam. This might explain the large opening behind the front wheel and possibly on the inside near the hood. The F1 cars draw this air from the front under the nose.

Here is a resized copy of the first picture so you can see the whole car at once.
I will add a picture of the Hotbodies body after I paint it.

I ordered a Parma Lola 200 mm body for the narrow pan car. It is a little thicker than the protoform Lola. I probably will not run the narrow car until the onroad tracks cleans up a little. My wide car is more tolerant of dust.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-toyoto-gt1-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-04-2007 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 03-05-2007, 10:14 AM   #980
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I have a friend airbrushing me a Budweiser version of the body. I'll post a picture when it's done!
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:01 PM   #981
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Here is the Hotbodies Toyota GT1 body on my wide pan car. There are two sets of cutouts available. One set is under the rear wing. Another set exposes the inside of the front tires. Maybe Mathijs can comment on these. My preference these days would be to make no cutouts on the front to keep the body strong. The cutouts in the back do not weaken the body much if you have a spoiler attached. The spoiler reinforces this area. I have used thicker than stock LEXAN to make new side dams, the same size as the originals and to make a spoiler with a 2 inch spoiler chord. .030 inch thick would be ideal. I have used .040 inch thick which is available from Tower in a 7 x 10 inch sheet.


Some comments on the body. This body seems to have the smallest cockpit of those that I have tried, but similar to the Porsche GT1. This should make it fast. The rear deck behind the cockpit is lower than the other bodies this gives the wheel tub a nice tall section inboard to strengthen the body and support the wing. If you make the two cutouts in the back then you will reduce drag and benefit from the lower rear deck. I mounted this body in the same position as my Porsche GT1 body and I seem to have more side skirt in front of the back wheel. This should inprove downforce by holding onto the vacuum better.

I am anxious to see the Budweiser edition.

John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-hotbodies-toyota-gt1-body-014-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-hotbodies-toyota-gt1-body-012-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-05-2007 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:06 PM   #982
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Good to see someone with a pan car!

I've been out of R/C about 10 years and was sad looking around trying to find stuff for my 10LS.

I bought mine as something to screw around with. I was racing offroad trucks and the first popular touring cars (Tamiya TAO2's) at the time and cruising them around my parking lot was boring. I built the 10LS and was hooked. I started making 8-cell packs and using low turn mod motors. It was geared tall, I only had foams, and it wouldn't hook unless it was up to speed. It was a really fun/cheap car to blast around with.

I blew off all the dust recently and was wanting to start screwing around with it. I can only imagine the speed that can be achieved with today's batteries and motors.
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:43 AM   #983
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John what do you need the Mini T a arms for???
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Old 03-07-2007, 12:46 PM   #984
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Nice paintjob!

The cutout on the rear slightly increases rear traction (completely opposite to what you'de expect)
The cutouts on the front wheel wells are similar to what the original car features.
Opening them up should slightly increase steering.
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Old 03-07-2007, 06:37 PM   #985
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Hobie-Glad to see you still have some interest in pan cars. Welcome to the thread.

Mathjis-Thanks for the tips. The car was well balanced today. I think I will leave the cutouts as is.

New Losi Mini-T based front suspension
Cristian- (Atomicmods.com). Here is a link to the Losi Mini-T supension Arms. My front suspension is working very well. It eliminated blowovers on the straight and made the car faster as well. Now here is the problem. Cristian, you already know that I don't care much for pivot balls on the outboard suspension arms. My lower arm is now dynamic. That lower pivot ball is load bearing and required to move a lot now, so it is wearing faster than normal. Nothing like a pivot ball to collect and hold grit. I prefer pins on the outboard lower suspension arm pivot because they never need attention, hardly ever break, and are almost always very free with little play even after a lot of use. I have been looking for a suitable arm and knuckle. I found that Losi makes a 2 wheel drive version of the MiniT The Mini Baja version. This will allow me to use Losi Pins, knuckle, and lower supension arms and possibly the steering block with an Associated axle. Here were my design criteria for a new front end

-Long arms for more traction on asphalt

-Hinge pin pivot (rather than a pivot ball) on the lower loaded arm at the knuckle.

-Fairly narrow lower arm with a little sweep so I can add the shock in a similar manner to my present suspension.

-Double A-arms. The associated upper arm is working quite well, but I will make at least a new piece outboard to eliminate the pivot ball.

-Easy roll center adjustment, but those plastic mounts suspended from the center Aluminum upright makes the suspension terrifically strong. I have a fix in mind to retain the strength and add adjustability.

I'll see more if it's possible, with these parts, when I get the pieces in. I will have to make two new Aluminum uprights for the suspension arm mounts. I will let you know if those Atomicmods parts work out for this application. A bolt on kit would be nice.
John

P.S. We had a tough time getting the track back to medium traction after the big weekend dustup. The track had been sugared twice but some had crystallyzed (dust blown on top when wet will cause this) and the rest was just too dusty. We swept and blew it off well and then the secret was to respray it with hot water with the yard sprayer. This redissoved the sugar and suspended the dust and it dried tacky. We saved the practice session.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-07-2007 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 03-07-2007, 07:10 PM   #986
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And here they are. That was fast. I am glad that they came in blue. I discussed my plans for these in the previous post. They are very nicely made pieces. Nice threads. Good hole chamfers. Nice little bevels smooth the top edges. Very well detailed and finished. I think it's a go. The rear arm will be my front lower arm. The shock will be low and centered on this arm outboard. The front arm will make a nice top arm. I will shim the camber. This will make it a rugged adjustment that does not change in the crashes. Caster might require several knuckles (caster blocks) which are not yet available. Ride height shim adjustable for the meantime. The mini-T adds caster with kickup.

John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-atomic-mods-mini-t-arms-007.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-07-2007 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:15 PM   #987
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John

You are hereby required to NEVER stop engineering on this car. What on earth would I read and contemplate when you finally finish???

Honestly, are you sure your car won't explode when combining Losi and Assoc parts? ROFL. I can't wait to see what you've worked out for this one. . .
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Old 03-08-2007, 01:51 PM   #988
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Boomer, when will you dust off your L2.5?
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Old 03-08-2007, 07:17 PM   #989
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Boomer-Thanks. I expect a parts rebellion any moment as there are Traxxas parts as well. I am very satisfied with the rear end. It is very durable in the crashes, has great traction and is wearing well. My current front end works very well is very crash resistant, but wears poorly at the lower pivot ball.


Mini-T front end
Here is a mockup of the left side front suspension. The knuckle (caster block) seems beefy enough. It would be nice if it was taller. The 4 mm axle is actually bigger than our 1/8 inch axle and it's only a hair short. The associated steering block will fit with minor sanding but will need a custom bushing to adapt it to the smaller pin. I think the small pins will be strong enough if I build some flex into the suspension arm mounts. I plan to build in flex with the stock losi parts that you see inboard. I have two sets of mounts to cut up, one half for each side. Starting to look like a race car now. Note that the plastic arms are unavailable right now. Not much money is tied up so far in this project.

A 4 x 8 mm bearing would be a press fit in our wheels (only a few thousandths oversize) I don't know which way I am going to go yet. 1/8 associated or 4 mm Losi. Probably 4 mm. I do get my unequal length arms as the upper arm (originally the front lower arms) is shorter.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-mini-t-front-suspension-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-09-2007 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 03-08-2007, 07:35 PM   #990
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John, I don't know what you feed your brain, but, don't stop. this is pure inventive genius. keep it up
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