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Old 12-22-2006, 07:04 PM   #706
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LRP Pro Comp Speed Control

I retested this speed control with better weather today. It felt like I was having traction issues after 2 minutes. I replace it with the Novak GTB and the car was wicked fast again. The LRP had undergone a soft death. It has given me good service. I have been using it very hard since August.


4 Link Rear Suspension
Work Proceeds on the other car on a 4 link rear suspension. The links are in their approximate final position. ( I changed to a more parallel link with Panhard bar later). I will need a new extended, but minimized bottom and top plate to support the right side links. The shock will be mounted to a low 3rd deck extending aft of the knife. The links are beefy but lightweight aluminum T-max parts.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-four-link-rear-suspension-002-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-26-2006 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 12-23-2006, 03:53 AM   #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
LRP Pro Comp Speed Control

I retested this speed control with better weather today. It felt like I was having traction issues after 2 minutes. I replace it with the Novak GTB and the car was wicked fast again. The LRP had undergone a soft death. It has given me good service. I have been using it very hard since August.


4 Link Rear Suspension
Work Proceeds on the other car on a 4 link rear suspension. The links are in their approximate final position. I will need a new extended, but minimized bottom and top plate to support the right side links. The shock will be mounted to a low 3rd deck extending aft of the knife. The links are beefy but lightweight aluminum T-max parts.
Very interesting. This opens up a world of adjustments!
Please keep us posted!
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Old 12-23-2006, 03:09 PM   #708
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The wide car was hooked up well today. I returned to the 5 degree reactive caster block to reduce oversteer late in the sweeper.

4 link rear suspesion with Panhard Bar
Mathijs-thanks. I decided to run a rear panhard bar as I will have a tab of graphite plate just aft of the spur to mount it to. The Bar will be a Red Traxas strut of hollow Aluminum which is quite light. Antisquat and roll center will be adjustable.

I have to make some right angle joints between two graphite plates. It would be nice to have a predrilled aluminum square stock of about 1/4 inch width to save some fabrication time. If anyone knows of an RC part that I can cut up or predrilled stock let me know.

AmpMax Batteries
My two 4000 mA-h AmpMax batteries are in. 13.8 ounces for the pair. I plan to run both at once.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-23-2006 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 12-23-2006, 05:02 PM   #709
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Four Link Suspension Continued

Imagine four ears coming off the top and bottom plates for link supports. The coil over shock will drive the rear of the bottom link down. Short upper links to reduce motor movement on bump. Panhard bar to come.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-four-link-rear-suspension-shock-resized.jpg  
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Old 12-23-2006, 05:41 PM   #710
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I was wondering how you would stop lateral movement if you had ball cups on your trailing arms. A panhard rod would do this but the original design for those top links in cars was to remove the need for a panhard rod. Will you be removing the top links when you go to a panhard rod system? If so, you might want to think about a Watts link instead as with a panhard rod it will push the suspension to one side when loaded and pull it to the other when taken off load. I think on the same link you showed of the Mustang suspension, it showed a watts link compared to a panhard rod further down.

Edit: original link shows watts link compared to panhard rod.
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Old 12-23-2006, 06:42 PM   #711
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The upper links will still be necessary with the Panhard bar to control axle torque. What is different is that they will no longer need to be angled inward as in the first picture I posted. A watts link would be better but require too much mechanism. The panhard bar is simpler but will still require me to build something stout extending back from the left side for a fixed support. I will work on that detail later.

The Rear Pod

I will have the right side motor plate identically placed to a wide pod. The left side plate will be placed like a short pod. This will give me clearance for my links on the left side, the ability to use standard pinions and good left to right balance with a brushless setup
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-four-link-rear-suspension-shock-004-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-24-2006 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 12-23-2006, 09:42 PM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
The upper links will still be necessary with the Panhard bar to control axle torque. What is different is that they will no longer need to be angled inward as in the first picture I posted. A watts link would be better but require too much mechanism. The panhard bar is simpler but will still require me to build something stout extending back from the left side for a fixed support. I will work on that detail later.

The Rear Pod

I will have the right side motor plate identically placed to a wide pod. The left side plate will be placed like a short pod. This will give me clearance for my links on the left side. The ability to use standard pinions and good left to right balance with a brushless setup
John
looks very interesting ,I would love to see the end results
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Old 12-23-2006, 11:58 PM   #713
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John
A friend of mine made the same suspension for his oval car about 10 to 12 years ago. He had it setup so he could adjust all five links up or down to change handling charactersitics. It was very smooth but had one problem, it had too much rear traction. After a couple of month of working with it he gave up and went back to a T-bar car. Also the panhard rod on his suspension was mounted to the front upper part of the rear pod and connected to the chassis with a custom standoff. His panhard rod was quite long, almost the width of the chassis. I hope my description makes sense.

Steve
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Old 12-24-2006, 06:38 AM   #714
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Steve-Thanks for the description. On my car the Panhard rod will be low and at the rear. It will be as wide as possible and fit between the tires. The roll center will be the point where the Panhard rod crosses the center line of the car. I plan to try the lowest roll center possible at first. All my links will be adjustable vertically as well. I plan to get a piece of 1/4 inch G10 which will extend low on the left side of the chassis. This will anchor the fixed end of the Panhard rod. I thought of putting the Panhard rod in front of the pod, but the lower links would make a low roll center unavailable. Smooth is what I need. We will see.

John
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Old 12-24-2006, 07:41 AM   #715
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I had the chance to tes 2 things today:
My new Novak 3.5 motor and a lowered Tbar.

The 3.5 is definively faster than the 5.5 I ran previously. It also has noticeably more drag brake. I will have to adjust my driving style for it.

The Tbar construction I have can be seen on the pictures below. I had 1.5mm af material milled away under the the Tbar to mount it lower.
As far as I could tell on the damp track rear traction has improved dramatically. Now I will probably have the figure out how to get steering back into the car again!

More testing to come when the weather clears up at last.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-tbar-lowered.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-tbar-lowered-zoomed-.jpg  
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Old 12-24-2006, 07:47 AM   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro ten Holland
I had the chance to tes 2 things today:
My new Novak 3.5 motor and a lowered Tbar.

The 3.5 is definively faster than the 5.5 I ran previously. It also has noticeably more drag brake. I will have to adjust my driving style for it.

The Tbar construction I have can be seen on the pictures below. I had 1.5mm af material milled away under the the Tbar to mount it lower.
As far as I could tell on the damp track rear traction has improved dramatically. Now I will probably have the figure out how to get steering back into the car again!

More testing to come when the weather clears up at last.
wow 3.5 and 6 cells,,thats Fast !
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Old 12-24-2006, 08:00 AM   #717
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if i were you i would mess with shimming the pivots .25 mm at a time raising the t plate up and down to try to get a good balance of front and rear traction.in 1/12th i find that on a 2.25mm chassis works better for asphalt and 2.5mm chassis works better for carpet.if you lower the t bar too much it will be very difficult to bring the traction back to the front.very cool what you guys are doing.happy holidays
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:52 AM   #718
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if i were you i would mess with shimming the pivots .25 mm at a time raising the t plate up and down to try to get a good balance of front and rear traction.in 1/12th i find that on a 2.25mm chassis works better for asphalt and 2.5mm chassis works better for carpet.if you lower the t bar too much it will be very difficult to bring the traction back to the front.very cool what you guys are doing.happy holidays
Thank's for the advice! I was thinking of trying something like that.
I also want to see what will happen if I add some side springs to get some steering back. I think the car will become more responsive overall with the stiffer setup with the low roll centre.

Let's see where the optimum lies when my hands aren't freezing off at the track!

Jason, wouldn't you like to give designing and manufacturing a 10th pancar a go?
I really like what you're doing in 12th scale!

I'de really like to help you with it!
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:36 AM   #719
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i have been tossing the idea around about doing a 1/10th pan/touring car.i like the pan cars due to the simplicity yet effective layout.i think it would be really cool to see more emphasis put into these types of cars.touring cars are just pricing themselves out of the market.

side springs will definately add some front traction.i would even try to go as far as adding a side shock with a red spring as a potent side dampener and spring combo.that should help the loss of traction mid corner and exit by slowing the spring tension during its return movement.damper tubes are just too weak in my oppinion.
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:42 AM   #720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro ten Holland
Thank's for the advice! I was thinking of trying something like that.
I also want to see what will happen if I add some side springs to get some steering back. I think the car will become more responsive overall with the stiffer setup with the low roll centre.

Let's see where the optimum lies when my hands aren't freezing off at the track!

Jason, wouldn't you like to give designing and manufacturing a 10th pancar a go?
I really like what you're doing in 12th scale!

I'de really like to help you with it!
by the way,mid 70's here.nice and warm
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