R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-04-2006, 05:11 PM   #496
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

Ernie-thanks for the wording. Run What You Brung. I used it at the race meeting. I'll see if I get get any electric racers interested. No flack at the meeting.


We had a good turnout of the first club race of the (cool) season. We had about 18 racers (1 electric, me). I qualified 2 cnd in the Nitro fourwheel drive touring car class. I was not setup to run a 20 minute main yet, but soon may be. I can run 12 minutes on sugar treated track with 3200 mA-h. My fastest laps were in the mid 18's as I suspected. Two cars (one 1/8 scale and one Nitro Touring car had a faster lap (while he was chasing me for position).

Those rear axle bearings, that have held up as long as this thread, failed in the second qualifyer. Anyway that's my Alibi for qualifying second. They were in pieces, they melted my plastic ride height spacers, and the axle collapsed just after the finish line. The axle is OK. Ruined the spur. Racing is the true test. Probably would not hurt to give these bearings a little oil or replace them once in a while even though the rear wheels (less pinion) spin really well.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 11-04-2006 at 11:21 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2006, 05:17 PM   #497
Tech Elite
 
vtl1180ny's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wrong Island
Posts: 4,963
Default

Looks like with the decision to go to 5 cells in Europe we may have a resurgence in pan cars for the speed freaks out there....
__________________
I still lurk....
vtl1180ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2006, 07:44 PM   #498
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

Dual Batteries

Well here is another way to run this Pantoura. I am running with the Nitro Sedans which have a 20 minute main for the club races. With two of these light batteries, I should be able to run 20 minutes easily and have no more weight than a 6 cell NiMH pack. Center of gravity is low. The twin batteries clear the outer pivot links. I will need to make a couple of battery stops for the sides. See the pic below. I have finally found a use for saddle packs. This is a trial fit picture. I am eliminating the speed control switch as it is kind of an unsafe device with Lipos anyway. You will kill the battery if you leave it plugged in. This way you have to unplug the battery to kill the fan. The speed control will be up in the cockpit arear of the Peugeot body.
I will be able to use one battery to qualify and two wired in parallel with a harness for the main. I am not scored with the Nitro guys, but it is fun to run against some equal competition.

Kim brough Medium Servo Saver
Note that I am now using the Kimbrough part #201 servo saver that I think Pro Ten Holland is using. I could mount the inner steering links pivot slightly lower with a little Dremmel work on the Servo ring to clear the inner ballcups. Bump steer is now at 0 with the same tall shim stack on the steering arms. I'll try adding some bump toe in like I think Pro Ten Hollands car has to see if I like the steering better.

I had two .50 cent cheesy servo savers on the car previosly because they were small. One exploded on the bench into pieces in assembly. The other did the same on the track after a small tap of the boards. You need a good servo saver. I have the Ascociated 10 L saver in hand. It is quite large, as large as my large heavy duty Kimbrough model that I had run previously. It would be OK with the servo up high.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-dual-batteries-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 11-04-2006 at 11:22 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2006, 02:27 AM   #499
Moderator
 
Pro ten Holland's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Druten/Holland (Europe)
Posts: 1,677
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I use the small size servo saver from kimbrough. It works equal to the medium size I normally use.

On the saddle packs: you create more traction using a saddle pack placed as far back as possible. If you space the batteries further apart, you generate even more traction by letting the car lean more in the corners.
This normally the hot setup in 12th scale asphalt racing. Have a look at the yokomo 12L4 and YRX12 2000 cars. (this is the design filosofy I followed for my X10 car)
It works as follows:
Placing the weight to the back of the chassis gives you extra traction to the rear coming out of the corner.
On corner entry the weight shifts to the front more, creating more steering.
Most roadcourse pancars use this design.
The only downside is left to right transitioning. This is usually solved by using inline steering blocks and firm front springs.

On small high-bite asphalt and carpet is where the pantoura design shines.

On the X11 design I'm working on I'm looking for a compromise. I still put the batteries full aft, but now very close to eachother. This should work better on big races with lots of cars puting down decent traction.
I'm working with a friend to create a 3D drawing of my design, and we will try to iron out as much as possible before building a prototype.
I'm really looking forward to testing it!

When the weather here clears up I'll do some testing with more and less bump toe-in on my X10 and other steering geometry changes. I'll let you know what I find.
__________________
http://www.rc-lemans.de/
Pro ten Holland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2006, 04:19 PM   #500
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

Pro Ten Holland-Thanks for the post. I don't disagree with you. I think the pantoura design has an advantage on a high speed bumpy straight with light batteries as well, though to prevent blowovers.

Dual Batterries Test
This might be of interest only to the Enduro team or to me to run my 20 minute main, but here goes anyway. I got the dual batteries wired up this morning and was able to do a 6 lap test run with both batteries in place, but running on a single pack. To determine just the effect of extra weight. The track had good traction from the previous days race and sugar water treatment. By chance I was running with an 87/14 as I had left my spare 84 spur at home. Ruined one in the race. Also by chance I had not used traction compound.
Results-I had extremely good forward traction and very good cornering traction. The car seemed quicker than before. Now I had tried this 87 spur previously and it was slow on the straight. It would not stay hooked up, I quess. It was very fast on the straight with the extra weight holding the rear tires down now. And then the rain came. I was prepared to do a 20 minute test with both batteries hooked up, but no luck. Will have to wait. The car should have more punch with the dual batts. I'll get new lap times on December 3rd. I think I'll just run with the two packs all the time.
Charging-I plan to charge these Apogee Magnum 3800 mA-h Batteries on two chargers at 7.5 amps each as reccomended by the seller. This will be a staggering 15 amp combined charge rate.
If you put handles on the tape by folding about 4 inches of the ends (still waiting on my purple strapping tape) both batteries, when untaped, will push right out with the harness attached. Two charged packs could be popped right in already attached to a new harness and retaped with the same tape. This would alllow a 1 hour main (or 24 hour enduro with new tape once in a while.

The car is at 51 ounces.

Note that the battery side stops are from an HPI molded wing mount kit. They press on a sheet metal angle that is covered by vinyl stickers to distribute the load on the pack. I have moved the fan to the top of the speed control like the Novak to make room in front for the tape. Two steel screws will catch threads in the heat sink. The fan is not as nice looking as the Novak though. A wide chassis would have room for slots for the tape and would make it a little neater looking. Check the second photo for a good place for the rear tape. I added this photo later.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-dual-batteries-wiring-closeup-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-dual-batteries-rear-tape-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 11-14-2006 at 04:55 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2006, 07:40 PM   #501
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

KSG Sway Bar (antiroll bar) custom install

I machined a new antiroll bar for the KSG sway bar kit that I purchased from Lefthander RC. It is 5 inch long. About 3/4 inch of the ends are polished down to .125 inch from 1/8 inch pianno wire which is a bit oversize. The center is surface ground on my lathe to .060 inch to make a relatively soft bar. The bars that came with the kit were too short for a wide pan car and also were on the stiff side.

The bar when installed will allow me to use the softer front springs and take advantage of my full ride height on the bumps on the straight without affecting the roll stiffness. The bar will increase the roll stiffness for a given spring. Cornering should remain balanced with the softer spring. I had one spectacular blow over at the highest speed in practice for the last race on the inside lane. Landed back on the tires. I just avoided this lane for the race and had no problems. Although I reported previously that I had no blow overs with the Peugeot body I was incorrect. I had one before I had the front dam at the right trim and height. I can see the scratches.

As you can see from the pic there is no graphite under the roll bar mounts. I have a new front graphite bumper coming that will rectify this. It looks like the roll bar will just clear my transponder. I'll post a report when I finish this project up. I won't be using the (ratty looking) Aluminum washer at the bottom of the roll bar mounts in the final install. They were for a temporary mount and did not come with the kit.

I see that I have the blue end pieces upside down (wrong side of the car). When you set the tweak on this sway bar equiped car you loosen the set screw (not visible because its upside down) on one of the links. Set the tweak and then tighten it back up. This is an advantage of this bar over a one piece bar that is bent to include the end pieces.

Steering Link Angle
You can also see in the pic the steering link angle required to get 0 bump steer. You will find that when you make bumpsteer 0 that the steering links point right to your instant centers. On this car the instant centers and roll center will be very near the level of the Lower arms (or slightly below if you use some negative camber).
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-sway-bar-trial-fit-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 11-06-2006 at 08:16 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 11:06 AM   #502
Tech Elite
 
yyhayyim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Weston, FL
Posts: 3,424
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default Corally CCT Race Report

What a day. A few days ago, on Sunday 11/5 afternoon, I took the Corally CCT to local track to run against some nitro and electric TC's. The track is outdoor asphalt track, temp about 82F, and not treated. Track is not perfectly smooth, and does has some bumps. Tried rear Jaco White and front Purple, with about 10 min of TQ tire sauce. Also used lola body. and it was powered by 4800mah Lipo and NOvak GTB 4.5R. Well the CCT was smokin'. Once the nitro boys saw it, they quickly took out their cars and wanted a piece of the CCT. The nitro's used Kyosho RRR and there was also a Sepent 720. They gave me a 1/4 lap head start, thinking it would be nice and merciful on their part, so as to not embarrass us so bad. Well, I took off, and by the time the first lap was finished, I maintained the same distance. It was just as fast as them on the straights, and a bit faster through the big sweeper, and then once we got inside, the CCT proved to have the edge due to its quickness and nimbleness in the infield. After about 5-6 laps, both nitro pilots took their cars off the track, and said they had some adjustments to make. Well, I kept on riding, and only the Serpent returned after about 45 min of wrenching on his car. He did make it a bit faster and better handling, and next race, I gave him a 3 foot head start. By the 2nd lap, I passed on the straight and then through the sweeper, and it was over. A few times he came close, within 4-5 feet, but never could get any closer. However, after about 8-9 laps, I keep on loosing traction. It seems the TQ sauce wore out very quickly. Why? This was the only issue I had. I could only run for about 3 mins, and then loose the traction. Maybe its the TQ sauce. Any one know of a better sauce? Another racer, one the faster drivers in town, could not belive what happened. So he pulled out his loaded Yokomo Mr4TC-BD, with Orion 4800mah Lipo and NOvak 3.5R system, with foam tires. He took a few laps to set up the car, and then added sauce, and the car was flying! Well, he kindly asked for a "match", and we proceeded to get ready to start. He gave me a about a 4-5 foot lead head start, and so I did. I pulled the trigger on my M11, and went down the straight about 4/5 throttle; the Yokomo quickly came close to within 2 feet and stayed on my tail as we entered the big sweeper and then the infield. But on that sweeper I punched it full thottle for a second, building up speed, and then maintained it till the first sharp turn-in of the field. The Yok had to actually slow down on that sweeper, and lost about 3 feet, and I never looked back. Once I noticed this, I then punched it full throttle on the straights and kept on building the lead, untill by like the 7th lap, I had a 1/4 track lead, and I keep on building up. So we stopped, and he asked for time to work on the car, and was very impressed with the CCT. On the second round, his car was wroking abit better, and the race was more competitive. This time he actually made a couple of passes on me, but the CCT would quickly pass him back, and eventually as in the first round, once it took the lead, he could not catch up or re-take it. So was I, but soon afterwards, lost the traction again. It seems the TQ sauce only holds for about 2-3 minutes. What is the problem? These sauces should be able to work much longer. Very disapointed with the TQ. But maybe its my lack of knowledge or application of it. Can anyone please advise on their routine and experience with the different sauces and which do you recommend? Need it to work for about at least 10 min...
yyhayyim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 12:18 PM   #503
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

Your rear tire is probalby too soft. The treated layer is wearing off. Try a pink tire instead. Use Corally Jack the gripper for 20 minutes. Thanks for the report.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 01:17 PM   #504
Tech Elite
 
yyhayyim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Weston, FL
Posts: 3,424
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default Tire Sauce

Mr. Stranahan: I do have some fairly new pink rears. I'll give that a shot, and try the "Gripper" stuff you mentioned. Is the Corally one? If so, which one, since I belive they have a couple of different ones? Is yours unscented?
yyhayyim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 01:21 PM   #505
Tech Elite
 
yyhayyim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Weston, FL
Posts: 3,424
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default Next Race

The next race will be this comming Sunday. on the above report, I forgot to mention I ran with a 64p 120 Spur and 17t pinion, for a ratio of 7.0, which is kind of high for the 4.5R. Mr. Stranahan suggests running 6.3-5.9, and I will try that this weekend. I also have a Novak 3.5R on the way, and the 7.0 ratio should work nicely for the 3.5R.
yyhayyim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 01:28 PM   #506
Tech Elite
 
yyhayyim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Weston, FL
Posts: 3,424
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default 200mm Serpent Loletta body

has anyone seen or knwns what this body looks like: its the 200mm Serpent loletta body, # SER170023, listed in Stormer hobbies. I hope its a Lola style body, but it doesnt have pics or description. If you know what it looks like or have pics or links to it please post them asap.
yyhayyim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2006, 01:39 PM   #507
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

Yes Corally. It's called "Jack the Gripper". That is the type. No perceptible scent. I thought that 7.38 gears were not low enough (not a high enough numerical ratio) for a 3.5 R. It really needs a smaller pinion. 5.8-6.2 is a good gear range for the 4.5 R on a long track.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 11-07-2006 at 08:25 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2006, 09:14 AM   #508
Tech Elite
 
yyhayyim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Weston, FL
Posts: 3,424
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default New Front End from CRC Gen X 1/12 pan car

John/Pro-ten, Marty from MLP: have you gentlemen seen the new CRC front suspension for the new CRC Gen-X 1/12 pan car? You can check it out at their website: www.teamcrc.com, and please, educate us as to what you think of it, and if it will work better for us 1/10 pan car drivers, than the old, AE front end. Just ordered a CRC Pantoura, and might order this new Gen-X front end for it. But first, want to check with the Sages and get their reviews, comments, critiques, and then see if its worth it. If it is better than the current AE front end, then why not get one? Hopefully it overcomes some of the issues John has pointed out in this thread and with this front end make 1/10 pan cars work even better for good.
yyhayyim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2006, 10:48 AM   #509
Tech Elite
 
vtl1180ny's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wrong Island
Posts: 4,963
Default

I'll be ordering the Gen-X car real soon.... Can't wait to see the front compared to the old style and reactive fron ends....
__________________
I still lurk....
vtl1180ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2006, 12:19 PM   #510
Tech Regular
 
rcdougie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Stuart, FL
Posts: 489
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Does anyone know if the CRC Pantoura can be fitted with touring car wheels, similar to a Tamiya F103GT? I think the combination of the performance of a direct drive pan car with the low maitenance of tc tires would really take off. Especially since 1/10 foamies are hard to come by sometimes and I like the idea of not buying a tire truer. Im eyeing up a 103GT but really want a Pantoura....any ideas??
rcdougie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks John Stranahan Electric On-Road 839 11-01-2011 04:31 PM
Xray T2R, 2100 mah 2c LiPo, and Mabuchi power: Tech tips and Tricks gacjr0 Electric On-Road 46 11-18-2007 10:09 AM
tips and tricks XXX-NT streetstock Electric Off-Road 2 05-13-2005 10:50 AM
Tips & Tricks Steevo Electric On-Road 54 08-08-2003 10:09 PM
Tips And Tricks rctc3 Electric On-Road 36 03-10-2002 10:54 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:48 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net