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Old 09-10-2007, 02:04 PM   #1786
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In my 6cell 10th pancar:
I ran my 12x3 turn corally and peak motors at 3mm timing with 36-38mm rollout with soft springs.
I went up to 42mm with a 12x1 Epic shock with 6mm timing and very stiff springs with very good results.
10 tuns, I ran 32-36mm with mild timing,
9 tuns at 30-34mm.
8 turns at 28-32mm.

In my 4 cell 12th scale pancar I normally would run 2 to 6mm larger rollout.
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:11 PM   #1787
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Thanks Pro Ten Holland!.. Thats EXACTLY the answer I'm looking for!
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:51 AM   #1788
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Ran my trinity on sunday at west london. Ran well apart from a not getting the ride high right. The Corally thrust race worked great...

I will post some pics when I have more time, there is a guy that recorded video as well who is going to post it on you tube.
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Old 09-18-2007, 11:47 AM   #1789
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JevUK-Thanks for the report.

New Pic of the Old Battery Fire
Max Amp Batterry Fire, New pic
Here is a pic of the scene of the crime during my last batterry fire. It shows damage to the bag. The body in the bag is melted. The stuff strung out beyond the bag was melted or damaged. I am charging in a tall walled can now. I will have all the little parts to rebuild the RC10L2O in a few days. I had some trouble finding the Viscous Disk Dampener support rod which is a molded part. It was available at Omni Models. Jim chided me on destroying his almost new RC10L2O. It will be good as new soon.

Revised Front Suspension
Work on my custom 3-Link Pan Prototype continues. I have machined a new front suspension block to tidy things up. The top canilevered arm is a thicker section. It is farther outboard to eliminate spacers. The previous model flexed at a hole that reduced the section by 50%. It would have been strong enough otherwise. I'll post a pic when its done. The part in the pic is cut in two to make both sides of the suspension.

Since this thread has a bit of touring car vs Pan car comparisons in it I thought I would post some more recent performance data.

Associated TC5 vs Prototype 3 link pan car
I raced the TC5 Sunday on the Same Layout that I run my prototype pan car. The best laps were in practice. 19.7 seconds. My pan would be running some mid 18's with the same level of traction. With good traction the pan has run 17.8 s laps. Traction would help the touring car a little but it is not really traction limited. With the latest equipment the touring car is hitting similar speeds on the straight as the pan, but it just does not accelerate as quick mid straights as the pan.

John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-suspesion-block-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-max-amps-lipo-fire.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-18-2007 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:05 PM   #1790
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If you have your pancar set up right, it will have a substantially higher corner speed than a touring car. At least, when there's traction.
Did you notice this?
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:31 PM   #1791
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Well yes, I have noticed. When the pan car is running 17.8 it is just faster everywhere than the touring car at 19.7s. The touring car does have an advantage for the first 10 feet out of the corner most of the time though. Top speed and longevity of the electronics have improved over the last year. I am getting decent motor temperatures in the touring car with the LRP TC edition and my fast Novak 3.5 R. The TC dumped a 4050 mA-h battery in less than 5 minutes though(45 amp average). My LRP X 11 3.5 blew up its rotor on the fourth run. There is a shortage, so warantee replacement has been delayed.

Front end work proceeds. The old part worked great but the upper hole on the top of the block closest to the front of the car created a weak area. There is more material on this block and the upper mount has been move out about 1/4 inch. This block weighs .25 ounce as in the photo. A few more bits to add. Right front suspesion block is shown.
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-suspesion-block-b-resized.jpg  
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:52 PM   #1792
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Latest Front End

Here is the last view of the new front suspension and some specs. I made minor changes recently to improve strength and rigidity of the upper arm in fore and aft type of flexing.
Firstly some weights. I weiged a stock front suspension off the L2. It came in at 2.8 ounces with tires. My front end weighs 4.6 ounces with tires. If you use some aluminum bits on your front suspension or are using the new CRC front end your weight is probably in between these two.

So what do you get for that extra 1.8 ounces.

Firstly there is very low stiction compared to the antique spring on kingpin. This gives you more grip in the corners when grip is lacking.
You get full hydraulic damping for better performance on the straight. No Blowovers at track speeds.
You get proper negative camber gain with roll from the uneven length A-arms. This seems to be very beneficial to cornering traction.

The suspension is not quite as rugged as the solid lower A-arm Associated suspension but it is rugged. I have made changes to ruggedize mine. I am using a machined Delrin Pan Car Upper Arm from CRC as the lower arm. This arm exceeded the strength of an 8x32 Aluminum stud in my extension. I have changed this stud to brass. The lower suspension mount is now spaced out .050 from the lowest part of the mount. This will give the mount some more flex in the crashes and save the arm. There is room for this in the new mount.

Having the shocks as close to the wheel as possible seems to be a big advantage in cornering grip compared to a more typical touring car setup.

Together with the 3 link rear end, this front end would get you about 1-1.5 seconds better lap times on my track than a stock pan car with the same electronics. I have tested several stock pan cars on the track. One more to go.

I wish one of you guys in Europe would build a copy of the whole car. I think you would be surprised.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-suspesion-block-c-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-suspesion-block-d-002-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-18-2007 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:40 AM   #1793
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Anyone have recommendations on lipo packs that I can run in an RC10L3 Touring car? I was thinking of the following 1700mah 20c packs. One on each side wired up in parallel. That would be 68 amps continuous current. That's enough for something like a Novak 5800 brushless motor, right?

http://www.aero-nuts.com/product_inf...roducts_id=129

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Old 09-19-2007, 03:22 AM   #1794
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@John: Why dont you mount your shocks otherwise? Not enough space? Lower CG?
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:13 AM   #1795
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John that suspension looks awesome.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:17 AM   #1796
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Kcobra-That sounds like a good plan. Two small packs in parallel. I have run a similar arangement with two larger packs with very good success on a Pantoura. Specs are fine.

Der Dickey-The main reason for the shock arrangement is to fit them under low GTP bodies. Center of gravity is low, Weight is low. They work great here. I have tried several other locations previous to this arrangement. The shock is upside down for the best turning clearance. What did you have in mind?

primus-thanks.

John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-19-2007 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:46 AM   #1797
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I mean: why do you mount your shocks with the shock cap on the bottom and the Shockshaft on the top?
I hope you unterstand i now
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:48 PM   #1798
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I get slightly more steering throw with the shock upside down. It works fine like that.


3-Link Rear Suspension
Here is a pick of the 3-Link rear suspension with Panhard bar. It has survived about a year of use. The main advantage here is that it is very supple. This improves cornering. It also has gobs of effective antisquat. The car actually gets up on its haunches to accelerate driving the rear wheels downward for better grip. Note the shock spring has better clearance on that spur gear right side up this time.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-3-link-rear-suspension-002-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-3-link-rear-suspension-006-resized.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-19-2007 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:32 PM   #1799
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Hi John,

Amazing thread You may have mentioned this somewhere within but where did you get that long left rear hub ? I''d like to get one.

Thanks in advance.

Mick
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:27 PM   #1800
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Dekelzman-Thanks
Thats and IRS 220 1.25 inch hub. Only comes in silver.

Note that greenish looking receiver in the left picture above is a Spektrum water and fuel proof unit that I recently aquired. Unfortunately it is not microsized. This was hard to tell in the adds. It does work with telemetry.
John
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