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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.

Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.

Old 08-26-2007, 11:53 AM
  #1756  
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Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
[I have Associated green slime which has been used on this disk. Other suggestions would be appreciated.
John
Corally Damper syrup works very well. Comes in Medium and hard, Red and Blue bottles I think. This is fluid intended for use on damper disks.
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:15 PM
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Thanks for the viscous disk info

For those that are not following the TC5 thread that I started, I had a bad LIPO battery fire. This is the first one that did damage to things other than the battery itself. Here is a link to the pic of the Poor RC10L2O that I converted to a wide pan. Below is a more recent pic of the basket case. I have to order a few plastic parts including the damper disks that melted in the fire. It is interesting that any part that was Aluminum near the fire underwent substantial corrosion damage as if in a salt spray for a month. I wire brushed the motor for quite a while on the near side to the fire. The damage to the chassis was of a corrosive nature as well as it happened in an H pattern around the center shock support. You might be able to see the repair. I filled sanded and polished the repair. I have one more little divot to fill with CA glue. One side of the H was cool, yet was still damaged. Full size aircraft get similar type of corrosive damage to carbon fiber parts near aluminum. The fire accelerated this. The speed control case is melted though it may work. The reciever was melted as well as the servo harness. The chassis survived with a just little repair work. The motor bearing froze from the fire, but the motor seems OK with a new bearing. Details of the fire at the end of the other thread. A sad day for team Stranahan's pans.

Further LiPo charging will be in a LIPO sock or steel walled pan.

I look forward to the pics that, V12 I believe, promised us on the 1/10 pan thread of some Prototype chassiss with independent fronts.
Attached Thumbnails Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-basket-case.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-04-2007 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:54 PM
  #1758  
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OMG that is shocking! Commiserations John, doesn't sound like it put too bigger a downer on you. At least no one was hurt and it's a wake up call to everyone about all safety not just lipo's.

When did you first buy that pack? Was it one of the older 15c ones?

Is there any chance you could to an extensive report on it in your usual no bull analytical style?

To cheer you up I will take plenty of picture of our pro10 meeting this coming sunday and let you know how we got on.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:44 PM
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He actually has a pretty in depth report on his TC5 thread. Pretty amazing and really puts me away from LiPo. . .
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:58 PM
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JevUK-Here is a link to the first post on the fire on the other thread. This was a fairly recent, but used 50 times LiPo that I had discontinued use about 2 months previous. It was not an early 15 C one. I had it on only maintenance charging. Apparently it did not want to go back into service. This is the first time that ordinary charging has set one on fire for me, so it was unexpected. I plan to charge them in a more protective container from now on. I threw away it's mate yesterday. Hurts a little to throw a serviceable pack away when you consider how much you pay for one of these packs.
I Look forward to some race pics.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-05-2007 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:14 PM
  #1761  
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when you said that you charged every couple of weeks, do you mean cycle or re peak?
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JevUK View Post
After looking at the chassis from all those years ago it came to my attention that the Diff does not have a thrust race, what a stupid design lol . I found that the thrust from a corally f1 car fits and it worked well . I've now got an old rc10 L series one to try too.
Pretty much all new pan cars have gotten rid of the thust race design in favor of the cone washer. The cone washer uses the inner hub bearing as a thrust race and actually is considerably smoother then an older style thrust race assembly. The problem though is the bearing used is not designed for a lateral load like that so it wears out extremely fast causing a nasty feeling diff. Slapmaster Tools is making a conversion for pan cars now using a thrust race assembly of much higher quality then the old thrust assemblies so it is much smoother, almost as smooth as a modern diff but with 100 times the durability.
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:40 PM
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I'm still using the cone washers. They are there purely as a basic spring.

I have found the corally thrust race to be smoother than no thrust race. Would be cool if that company brings out an even better design. A coil spring would be a good start for finer adjustment.

I think the designers must have done away with the thrust race for cost saving. Tamiya f1 always had one, so it would seem do corally's.
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:42 PM
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Jev UK- I put it on the charger usually the balancing Scorpion charger for a while. Just to keep it from going below its minimum allowed voltage.

Here is a pic of a 14 tooth pinion Practice Picture with a new Fuji Finepix S700. It has a super macro mode that allows focus of an object as close as 1 cm from the lens. This is a full screen shot as opposed to a highly cropped shop. This macro mode should come in handy. My old finepix camera withered in small steps mostly from wear and tear and breathed its last last week. This is the Robinson Racing Titanium Nitride Gold Pinion that I am so fond of for Pan car use. Available at StormerHobbies.com. It is wide enough to cover the whole spur and wears like only Titanium Nitride can. 20 times less wear than a Nickel plated pinion of the same brand. Nickel is some very hard stuff as well. This wear factor is important only with the small 12 and 13 tooth pinions.

InspGdgt-Thanks for the thurst bearing report.

JevUK Boomer put up on the first page of this thread and recently on the 1/10 pan thread on the thrust assembly. You do need the Aluminum cone spacer pointy side in and then those 3 spring Belleville washers. The outer bearing becomes a thrust bearing. It lasts as long as the pinion side wheel bearing so just replace both when one of them wears out. Bearings with seals last cosiderable longer. You need a 3.5 because they don't make the 1.5 yet.
John
Attached Thumbnails Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-robinson-racing-tin-coated-pinions.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-23-2007 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JevUK View Post
I'm still using the cone washers. They are there purely as a basic spring.

I have found the corally thrust race to be smoother than no thrust race. Would be cool if that company brings out an even better design. A coil spring would be a good start for finer adjustment.

I think the designers must have done away with the thrust race for cost saving. Tamiya f1 always had one, so it would seem do corally's.
Sounds like you are only using the spring washers. There are usually 1 or 2 steel cone washers which are spring washers and 1 large aluminum cone which presses on the inner race of the bearing. It wasn't done away with for cost savings...they truely are smoother when built properly. But if you want a thrust assembly get the Slapmaster one...its awesome. I've converted all my cars over to running those.
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:07 AM
  #1766  
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Sounds like you are only using the spring washers. There are usually 1 or 2 steel cone washers which are spring washers and 1 large aluminum cone which presses on the inner race of the bearing. It wasn't done away with for cost savings...they truely are smoother when built properly. But if you want a thrust assembly get the Slapmaster one...its awesome. I've converted all my cars over to running those.
The cone and spring washers are there purely as a spring, you could do away with them and use a coil spring if you could find one suitable.

I have attached a picture of how a differential should be.

The thrust race is pressed against the hub not the ball race. A standard ball race is not going to be as smooth, sorry but that is just an engineering fact.

As long as the thrust race is in good condition and taking 100% of the lateral load it will be smoother. I have tried both types and the thrust race was smoother and allowed for a finer adjustment of resistence.

Corally & Tamiya knew what they were doing. Trinity? Nope

I used 5000wt diff oil the thrust bearing.

I don't understand why you were charging that pack even when you were not using it . I'm not saying that is what caused it to flame. IMHO you should run the pack to no less than 80% capacity and then just leave them till the next time you use them. If I know that it's going to be a long time I use boost them back up a bit to maybe 50%.

My personal lipo rules:
No Repeaking
No Overdischarging
Don't use them when cold
No poking a screwdriver through them when wired to a 12v battery
No trying to make my own packs anymore because soldering alu is a nightmare
Attached Thumbnails Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-differential.jpg  
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:56 AM
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I've done a ton of testing with thrust bearings vs. the conventional cone washer + belville washer and have found that in 1/12th scale the thrust bearing works WONDERFUL.

However, as soon as I moved it up to 1/10th scale, it just proved unpredictable and just insufficient.

I used various thrust bearings, including the slapmaster, the HPI, and a couple I found on mcmaster.com (LOVE that place!!!) with a variety of lubricants, from dry to 10,000lb all of which worked "okay" but none of them had the predictability and fine-grain tune-ability that we can get by destroying a flanged bearing with the cone washer/belville assembly (and, yes, it does destroy them, they're not designed to be used in a lateral-thrust fashion)

I literally gained a LAP the second I moved back to the cone washer. The other person (radically different driving style) who was testing along side me had nearly the same experience - he gained 5+ seconds per lap.

Based on literally several months of struggling with thrust washers, I'd strongly recommend using the conventional setup:



by the way - your drawing has a couple of things - first, is your thrust bearing an actual thrust bearing or is it a normal bearing being used as a thrust bearing? I am making an assumption here!

Second, you have the belville washers (cone springs) reverse to the way that they are engineered. Belville washers are supposed to have the load applied to the "tip" of the cone with the resulting sprung thrust applied via the "base" of the cone - and your drawing has the load (the nut) applied to the base with no thrust being given via the tip, but rather at some point outside of it, which is both inefficient (not using the entire washer) and reverse.

By their nature, they work from "top to bottom"
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:12 AM
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"If I know that it's going to be a long time I use boost them back up a bit to maybe 50%."

Exactly. No fault in my procedure.

John
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:27 AM
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Actually the cone and beville system does not work as a spring only. The aluminum cone pushes on the inner race of the outer hub bearing which turns that bearing into the thrust race. A spring alone pushing on the hub would not work because the hub and the axle nut turn opposite directions. That is the reason for the thrust assembly in the first place.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:34 AM
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That's odd Boomer...I would have expected the thrust bearing to work better in a 1/10th then a 1/12th given how much more sensitive to change 1/12th cars are. I've found the Slapmaster to be very consistant once the diff rings are broken in. Which brings up another thought for me...The old method of building a diff was to polish the diff rings until someone thought of the idea to sand the rings so they would have more grip on the diff balls. But if the diff isn't smooth until it is broken in what good is that? The diff balls are essentially polishing a groove into the diff ring so sanding the rings is really doing nothing to give the diff balls grip on the rings. Personally I'd rather go back to the old method of polishing the rings.
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