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Old 08-19-2007, 09:02 PM   #1741
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If the track allows traction compound run Jack the Gripper. It makes a big difference.
John
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Old 08-19-2007, 10:33 PM   #1742
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If the rear is loose on corner exit, use tthinner center shock fluid. 30wt is standard.
Also a blue spring is a bit stiff. Best swap it for a silver.
I the car still is tail-happy on corner exit go for green or blac and 20wt center shock oil.

Furthermore, don't let go the throttle during the corner completely, keep at least 20% to keep the car rolling really helps.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:49 AM   #1743
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Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
If the track allows traction compound run Jack the Gripper. It makes a big difference.
John
Thanks John...I got a new bottle of Corally "Jack Da Grippa"...I am trying not to use any traction compound...I didnt need any on my 200mm Pantoura; only if I really wanted to make some cocky TCs humble, if you know what I mean. So on the wide car, it shouldnt need traction compound for it to get good rear grip. Its not too far off, and i'm sure some adjustments should make it stick a bit more...
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:56 AM   #1744
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If the rear is loose on corner exit, use tthinner center shock fluid. 30wt is standard.
Also a blue spring is a bit stiff. Best swap it for a silver.
I the car still is tail-happy on corner exit go for green or blac and 20wt center shock oil.

Furthermore, don't let go the throttle during the corner completely, keep at least 20% to keep the car rolling really helps.
Nice to hear from you Mathijs...anyways, I'll try 30WT center oil and a softer spring and see how that works out and report...

About the body: the McAllister N90 - I'd like to keep it stock, and still get the car to hook up well on mid corner to corner exit on throttle. It should not require extra side dams and bigger rear wing to get it to hook up, ideally...once its working right, I'll eventually add a little more flaps here and there to get even more downforce and higher cornering speeds...

Eventually maybe try out an AE Nissan body? I guess I need a body with more downforce (at least in the rear), but with the least drag possible...your recommendations are much needed and welcome...
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:17 AM   #1745
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On low speed corners mor downforce won't help you. First try the changing the centershock.
Check tweak regularly (it isn't spinning out in only one direction isn't it?)
If you can't fix it with the center shock, install a firmer front tire or a softer rear tire.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:26 PM   #1746
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John: I'm really thinking of contacting D. Powell to make me a wide pantoura chassis. I really miss the ease of the Pantoura's centerline battery set up...it seems the wide version will give me a bit more room for electronics, too. In order to make a wide pantoura, I guess I'll need:

1- CF wide chassis plate & Top deck
1- CF rear pod bottom plate
1- CF rear pod top plate
1- CF rear brace

The rest I have from the ProMax 10 and narrow Pantour(front end, shocks, body posts, etc.)

If there is any else you think I'm missing, would you please be so kind to point them out so I can get them?
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Old 08-20-2007, 06:48 PM   #1747
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yyhayyim-The narrow pantoura Battery Brace will work on the wide Pantoura chassis as will the cross plate knife. The upper pod plate may be the same for a 3 shock setup car on the Powell wide T-plate car as on his Wide Pantoura chassis car. The new bottom plate will be needed along with the wide chassis. Get steel pivot balls for all the joints. I like that battery setup for Lipos as well.


Air Temp 93 F Track Temp 136 F. Traction between Medium and poor.

PRC Max 10. I was able to run the car today. I am happy with the setup. The car had no ill traits. I ended up using 14 # purple MurdochRC springs on long king pins with Teflon Coated Pivot Balls up front. Turn in was good. Grip on the sweeper was now satisfactory. I am using 35 weight oil and the green center spring on the center shock. Gearing 90 spur 12 pinion Novak 3.5 R.

I made a back to back test of the speed developed on the straight for the Powell chassis as well as my custom 3-link pan chassis and a recently aquired TC5. The TC5 was equipped with an LRP TC edition Speed Control and the X11 3.5 motor. My custom pan was fastest at 49 followed by the TC5 at 48 Followed by the Powell at 46. mph. After 10 laps the pan car motors were running about 140-145 F. After 10 laps the TC5 motor was at 167 F. This may mean the TC5 will need to be geared a little slower. I will take a loud 5 minute timer for my next TC5 test. I want to tell you that these numbers do not tell the whole story on the straight. The touring car is lightning fast for the first 15 feet out of a corner, but then the pan car will overtake it at about the 20-25 foot mark where the wing starts giving the pan car ferocious acceleration. The bumps will then limit the top speed of the pan car on the last third of our straight. I believe the Powell car would be ahead of the TC5 going into the sweeper by a good margin even on this poor traction day. I believe that a center pivot link car like the Powell Wide Pantoura, even though it will bottom more, will be in between the Powell T-Plate Car and My pan (3 link) on our straight. The more grip and the smoother the track the less will be the gap between the different pans. If there is any sugar water (or good traction)on the track just say goodbye to the touring car after only one lap.

Although there is nothing poor about the cornering of the PRC Max 10, the 3 link car with independent front has the edge here as well. The center pivot link car (Wide Pantoura) and the T-plate car corner similarly. I failed to get lap times due to various malfuctions of the Spectrum Telemetry Unit. On one car the sensor let go of the double stick tape and fell down. It needs the tape and a tiny tie wrap. The light sending unit may need to be elevated to the recommended 10 inches to better reach the sensors.

I did get good reliable radar numbers.

Next I plan to put the radar to the RC10L2O modified to almost a wide pan. 220 mm. I want to see if there is an advantage to that viscous disk in getting traction on the straight.

traction on the straight seems to mirror traction elsewhere on our track, so it is also somewhat an indicator of laptimes.

Hot hot hot!
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 08-20-2007 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:29 AM   #1748
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if you can work to get mechanical grip (as opposed to just getting a higher DF body) then I would start there and use the body to either fine-tune things to your preference ( I prefer a lower DF body cause I like to go fast! LOL) or to make up what you can't get mechanically.

If you're low in on-power exit-turn traction, you could try a softer rear tire, slightly loosening your diff, going softer with your center spring (allows more weight transfer to the rear) or slightly lighter with the center spring oil (allows a faster weight transfer to the rear)
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:48 AM   #1749
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if you can work to get mechanical grip (as opposed to just getting a higher DF body) then I would start there and use the body to either fine-tune things to your preference ( I prefer a lower DF body cause I like to go fast! LOL) or to make up what you can't get mechanically.

If you're low in on-power exit-turn traction, you could try a softer rear tire, slightly loosening your diff, going softer with your center spring (allows more weight transfer to the rear) or slightly lighter with the center spring oil (allows a faster weight transfer to the rear)
Boomer- thx...basically PRO-TEN, John, and yourself seem to agree on the changes to the set up; I have changed the oil to 30WT and went w/ a bit softer center spring and see how it does...hopefully later today I'll get a chance to run a pack or two and see how it does...thanks for all of you guys help and tips
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:22 AM   #1750
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great minds and all that!

Actually - a lot of it comes from reading way too many books that are waaaaay over my head! (like that Milliken and Milliken book - I think I got about half of it! If that! )
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:45 PM   #1751
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The track had medium traction today. I was pleased that it came up to this level. It was looking pretty grim for the pan car after the new topcoat. Now The pan is competitive again with the Nitro's. I ran the Pan car against the electric touring car today and can tell you three distinct places that the pan car is superiour and gains a lot of time.



Turn 1 and 2 are high speed corners. I am tapping the board with the TC right between 1 and 2 because I am used to flying through there faster with the pan car. The pan car then does turn 2-3 a little better and comes onto the straight faster. Although the top speeds are similar the Pan car is accelerating so hard in the middle of the straight that it gets to the sweeper considerably faster in time; It would open a 20 foot gap at least. Then I can slam the pan car into the sweeper, turn 5, at full speed. In my previous wide pan video I could not handle the sweeper properly due to a wimpy front spring. This made the touring car look better there. With the touring car I have to enter gently to stay on a tight line. The infield is more similar than dissimilar, but on this track my pan would have about 1-1.5 second edge per lap because of the advantages on the noted parts of the track. I'll get some lap times later on.

The touring car did not thermal with the LRP TC edition today. That was good news for that speed control.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 08-25-2007 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:11 PM   #1752
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I experienced the same problem with my wide pan car. it appeared that the rear end was a bit loose and it really increased my lap time. In comparison with my narrow pan, the rear end was always on rail.

I have tried many ways to solve this problem and to my surprise, body with lower downforce gives better lap time and almost no loose rear end. I had more understeer but the lap time was much better.
As John mentioned if the track allows for traction compound...use it! Depending on the track rules will depend on what you use. If they allow pretty much anything the hot ticket lately has been black can Paragon, soak for 15mins, followed by suntan lotion, again let it soak, then wipe off with a rag. If they only allow odorless (supposedly odorless) compounds then use the Jack the Gripper. Or you can even try just suntan lotion alone, that works pretty well too. If the car is loose in the rear start with compound on the rear tires only. If you need more front traction from there then start with the inner 1/3rd of the front wheel. If that's not enough go up to 1/2 the tire then to full front. Somewhere in there you should find a good balance.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:18 PM   #1753
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RC10L2O
Here is a pic of my converted RC10L2O graciously donated by Jim Ottoman for this test. The main purpose of this test is to investigate the viscous disk dampening system. The car is 212 mm wide up front with the use of my homemade adaptors. It is 220 mm at the rear to avoid having to use an extended pinion with the 3.5 R motor. This is accomplished with a wide pan car right hand hub and wide pan car axle. I plan to run the damper disk dry, with and wihout the motion limiting insert inside the disk. The manual suggest to use the insert for road course duty. I am a little concerned that it will limit travel too much on my uneven straight, but I will try it too see. Maybe this is what the tradional pan car needs to have traction through the bumps.

I have tried previously in this thread, the little damper tubes on a stock CRC Pantoura center pivot single shock rear end. A 3 rear shock rear end on a center pivot link car, the Powell Wide Pantoura. Tallys T-plate Powell Max Pro 10. And my 3-link twin shock rear end. This will be my last test in this series.

I have Associated green slime which has been used on this disk. Other suggestions would be appreciated.

The car fits nicely under the standard pan body. Because of the Narrow rear width the body can be slammed low if desired for a higher speed course. The tires will not hit the fender lips on the body at this narrow rear width.

My Spektrum Telemetry system made the cars stop at random times during a run. This caused a couple of crashes. There must be too much drain with the servos that I am using. I removed the systems and the problems quit. One car had the Spektrum capacitor. This one stopped as well so the problem is not eliminated with the cap.

I like the tape slots on the left side a lot.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-rc10l2o-017.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 08-25-2007 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 08-25-2007, 11:26 PM   #1754
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You can use several fluids on the damper discs.
You can try CRC tube lube, crally damper syrup, regular shock fluid (replace often), losi hydra fluid and 1/8th offroad diff fluid.

Motion of the disc assembly can be improved with teflon tape on the discs and rear pod top plate.

I've never found the limiters to be very useful, but I'm really interested to hear how they work for you John!
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:44 AM   #1755
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I ran my switchblade at Barham today. I've been getting it ready for a pro 10 revival meeting in 2 weeks at West London .

The car was promising but the track is so bumpy it cause all sorts of problems. Blow overs on the sweeper was one. Thankfully West London is much smoother.

I've got a lipo bolted in there flat against the middle suspension pivot, but I need a better solution for race day. I might have to run one pointed forward like John's, which I really don't want to do.

After looking at the chassis from all those years ago it came to my attention that the Diff does not have a thrust race, what a stupid design lol . I found that the thrust from a corally f1 car fits and it worked well . I've now got an old rc10 L series one to try too.

I was back on the old Corally Silverstars again . I know I said about them before but I think it deserves another mention. If you want to go fast with additive there doesn't seem to anything to touch them. Yeah sure they wear fast but grip does normaly mean more wear .

I had an old reedy 3 star(6.5) brushless in there but after a blow over into some metal barriers the rotor sliped on the shaft. I think I will have to upgrade it to a sintered one. It was running quite well with one of my gtb esc's. I can't understand how people need to run 3.5 turn motors .

I will try and put up a picture of the chassis.
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