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Old 07-21-2007, 08:00 PM   #1666
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Well, my CRC Pantoura got some track time, and I got to say it was really good. I ran it with my Orion Vortex BL 3.5 motor, 100 Spur 18T pinion. I ran it with a 200mm Saleen S7R body, and it was really good. The track was a bit dusty and its a nice size track at 140X70, with 713 ft of running distance, and eather was hot, 95F; the car was planted in rear, and steering was sharp L/R, with out traction compound!!! This was great to see, and its the first time the ar worked so well on a bit dusty track and no traction compound or sugar water. I was running the stock front springs, and it made the car push off throttle and coming in the sweeper after going full speed down the straight...that was the only issue. Seems like I'll
need softer front springs to get some front traction and maybe add a 1 deg of toe out if it still pushes after the front spring change. center shock oil is 30WT and used a med spring.

Loved the the Orion Vortex (178g), and it ran very cool after 10 min run, 157F. Tomorrow I'll be running w/ the Serpent 200mm body and see how it affects the car's handling. Tomorrow I'll will also run the car with the Orion 10.5 BL motor and see what speeds and times i can get with it. I'll be sparring against a very good TC mod driver and see if indeed a pan car can hang with todays mod powered TC's, with just a 10.5 motor and 7.4v lipo pack. By buddy's TC is 4.5 motor w/ Lipo and foam tires...It'll be tough...

We'll be taking video of the practice sessions, and hope to have them ready for viewing soon.

John & Mathijs and the whole pan-car die hards: pray for me, will ya...
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Old 07-21-2007, 08:27 PM   #1667
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Front springs- will ASC8429 work? These are AE .20 springs. If these wont work, any suggestions on where to get some .20 front springs for 1/10 pan car?
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:36 AM   #1668
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The 8429 is the right # for the .20 spring for 1/10. You could try Stormer, the onlineshop says in stock.
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:10 AM   #1669
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I believe the Pantoura comes with 12th scale front springs and kingpins.
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Old 07-22-2007, 02:42 PM   #1670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro ten Holland View Post
I believe the Pantoura comes with 12th scale front springs and kingpins.
That's what I'm not sure about...I'll be getting a set of both 1/10 and 1/12 and see which fits...

track report: well, ran today agaisnt the mod 5.5R tamiya F103GT. My Pantoura ran w/ Orion Vortex 10.5 BL motor. We both ran Lipo( as usual), and overall I had the better lap times. The car had very good corner speeds and much better turn-in and hanling, as well as accelaration out of corners. Pantoura wins today...unfortunately the mod TC didnt make it today, so we'll have to race it another day.
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:27 PM   #1671
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The Patoura has 1/12 springs. I also suggest long kingpins and MurdochRC springs.
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:38 PM   #1672
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Quote:
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The Patoura has 1/12 springs. I also suggest long kingpins and MurdochRC springs.
Thanks for the link John...good stuff...what have you found out about using 10, 5, 0 deg blocks? I have the 10 deg blocks up front...have you tested with the 5 and 0- how has the cars behaved with them?
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:43 PM   #1673
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the 5 and 10 degree reactive caster blocks will reduce caster as the car rolls. This reduces steering traction as the car rolls. If your car tends to spin out mid to late corner try the 5 degree block. it will reduce steering traction late in the corner and prevent the spin. If it still spins out try the 10 degree block. I prefer the 5 degree block (with 4 degrees of caster) with a long straight followed by a decreasing radius sweeper. If you don't have enough steering traction mid to late corner use the 0 degree block and add more caster.
John
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Old 07-22-2007, 07:35 PM   #1674
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John i did some searching on this thread but didn't find info related to this question. You ran 2 packs in parallel and mentioned that it drove like a cadillac (pig :P), but I didn't see any info related to run time. i'm curious about this as it would make for some interesting enduro type racing. ie heavy load (2 parallel) vs light load (normal). How long was the run time???
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Old 07-22-2007, 07:44 PM   #1675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
the 5 and 10 degree reactive caster blocks will reduce caster as the car rolls. This reduces steering traction as the car rolls. If your car tends to spin out mid to late corner try the 5 degree block. it will reduce steering traction late in the corner and prevent the spin. If it still spins out try the 10 degree block. I prefer the 5 degree block (with 4 degrees of caster) with a long straight followed by a decreasing radius sweeper. If you don't have enough steering traction mid to late corner use the 0 degree block and add more caster.
John
Thanks John...I'll try the 5 deg tomorrow and see how it goes. How will stiffer center shock spring or oil effect the cars steering?

Lastly, I'll try out using a 3-shock set-up for the pantoura...got any pics?
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Old 07-22-2007, 08:01 PM   #1676
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Mason-I had pretty good luck with twin LiPo's in the mostly stock pan cars. It actually helped them punch down through the dust a little more and improved lap times by improving forward traction. (more like with 6 heavy NiMH's on board) Run times varied with traction. I was getting over 15 minutes and was prepared to run the 15 minute Nitro A-Main this way with no pit stops and with 8000 mA-h.

Since that time, I have improved the forward traction by installing the 3-link rear suspension. The car is just plain fater now. Now the second battery does not really improve things. It hurts the cornering like you noted. The twin batteries on the 3-link does not corner worse than the stock pan with twin batteries, it is just reduced over what the 3-link normally does. Also with the better forward traction of the 3 link, I don't quite get 15 minutes. Maybe 13 with two 4000 mA-h on board. I am getting about 8-9 minute runtimes with one battery on board and no sugar water with a Novak 3.5 R. Your single pack run time is never double because the car is heavier.

I noticed Drews car was hooked up pretty well with 10,000 mA-h in a two battery setup on board.

Certainly a 10 minute race is within easy reach with powerful motors. With a 19 turn motor this might be doubled. With a stock motor even more.

YYhayyim

Stiffer center springs and shock oil is supposed to give more steering traction. This effect is slight. I would tune these two, to make the car less bouncy through the bumps and to not bottom on the worst bumps. I ended up using about a 17 lb spring and 35 weight oil. I have a setup posted for the car earlier in the thread also.

Plenty of pics of 3-shock setups in the thread. All this Pantoura stuff we covered in about the first 7 pages.
John

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Old 07-23-2007, 07:22 PM   #1677
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Pan Car Speed Run 63 mph! (Using Track Gearing)

We finally had a dry day and went out to Houston Raceway park which is a multi million dollar 1/4 mile dragstrip. 1/4 mile of grandstands on both sides of the track. 5 story VIP motel right behind the starting line. The race cars all pass through a tunnel in this building this is where we pitted in the shade.
The track is concrete. It is covered with a layer of thick rubber and VHT traction additive. When you walk on it you stick to the ground. For the pan car it was another story. The top surface has no real texture too it, that the foam tires rely on for traction. I had a lot of trouble driving straight from poor traction. I had the Novak 3.5 R geared 13/90 which is suitable for use on our track. I got my best speed of 63 mph. The body was very similar to what the guys use in Europe at this point.
I had much better luck with the blowovers. I tested two items, front corner winglets and front corner diffusers. With both of these on board the car was very squirrely. I could not drive it well (I can't drive from the ground anyway) I crashed it. I took the winglets off and the car was better. It did not go airborne unless I hit an expansion joint that was not even. The reason for the improvement was a pair of front diffussers like on the Toyota Eagle MK III. Pic below. The theory here is that the front tires pull considerable air under the front bumper from their rotation. The air expands under the diffuser and creates a little vacuum there. This is worth a test on the track. Now I will just say that the car was not really topped out on this 63 mph run. More gains are possible. With the lack of traction and lack of a drivers stand my Radio range limited things again.
Radio range was 130 yards on the ground. 150 yards about 3 feet up on the concrete K-rails. Old Spectrum receiver with long antenna.
What a cool place to drive your speed run car. Nick might post a video or two we will see.
John
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-front-diffusers-cropped.jpg  
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:51 PM   #1678
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Now its time to "pimp" my CRC Pantoura. It has run so well the last 2 times, that I'm going to spend a few more dollars on a few more upgrades.

I'm thinking of getting the some CRC Gen X parts for the Pantoura:

1. the rear motor mount and bulkhead set, red.

2. the new torpedo damper tubes

3. Gen X pro strut front end

4. Maybe: Gen X pod top plate (not sure about this one...dont know if it'll work with the Pantoura)

Driving the TC's for a while made me forget how nice pan cars drive...I havent needed to use traction compound...the car just works well with it when the track is decently clean. I have tested with the Orion 10.5 BL motor and it was faster per lap than a 4.5R equipped Tamiya F103GT w/ Foam tires. I have run against that F103GT with my MI3 and 3.5BL motor w/ rubber tires and have beat it by about 1 sec per lap. To catch and or beat my Mi3, I'll need a bit more power, most likely an 8.5R BL motor or similar. I'll be getting the 4700 CM36 mamba motor, which supposed to be like an 11-12T motor, a bit faster than a Novak 8.5R motor.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:09 PM   #1679
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Ran a pack today before getting rained out, w/ the front 5 deg blocks. The car seemed a bit twitchy on power, especially at higher speeds, but had less turn in than w/ the 10deg blocks...I dont like the twitchyness...so I'll be going back to the 10 deg and wait for the .20 springs comming in this week.

One problem: the Spur gear stripped. Very strange, its the 2nd Spur gear that strips on 3 runs...I'm using 64P 100T spur gear and Robinson alum pinions...any clues as why this could be happening?

I'm going to try 48P gears now...any one know the 48P equivalent in size(or closest) to 100t 64P Spur?
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:37 PM   #1680
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almost nobody used 64 pitch on pan cars outside.. it's the brakes that kill them.. besides the dirt..
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