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Old 07-17-2007, 02:50 PM   #1636
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53 mph was reached with the setup I use on the track. All I know is the car creates a 30 foot gap on a mod brushed touring car on the straight with that same setup. That is a huge gap. You can even see this gap in the wide pan video I posted with a mostly stock pan car. I have improved the cornering markedly since that video. In the video I had a left front spring bottoming limiting performance on the sweeper. The faster routine mod brushed electric touring cars on our track which included 7 and 8 turns was 44 mph. The fastest was my 10 x1 which reached 45 mph routinely. All the brushless do on our track is thermal at 3 minutes in a touring car so what is the point of running them in a touring car.

Distance was a problem in our last speed run. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I imagine the greater frontal area of a wide pan car is going to limit speed. That's why oval guys prefer the narrow cars. It may go a little faster next run if Nick finds a good place. I would have to think that guys claiming their wide pans were doing 70 were just estimating the speed which is what I did before I bought the radar gun. I will note we had radar readings on the Nitros which I compared my pan to in practice and in races. Speeds are somewhat higher (up to 60 for the Nitro touring cars) during high traction conditions. I have noted during these times the Nitros do not create a gap on my car, but i have no radar numbers directly on my pan car in a race.
I will also note that the incar systems we have checked typically measure speed 20% or so high because of tire slip in powerfull high speed run cars.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:26 PM   #1637
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The difference in frontal area isn't going to make a 20mph difference. Maybe 2 or 3mph but I can't see that much more. It could be the track too. How long is the straight? It sounds like the track can be pretty bumpy to. Usually at high speed I never had that much problems with blow overs with a GTP style body due to their higher amount of downforce. NASCAR bodied cars I would see that sometimes. Also ovals going that fast are geared outrageously. For that race with a 14T motor I was geared at 3.3:1.
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:14 PM   #1638
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Drew-Thanks for the good report and pics. It looks like you are going for Nitro main runtimes with 10,000 mA-hours on board. You are having very good results with a very old car! Thanks for testing the Gurney strip. I plan to add one to my high speed body if we test again. (A gurney flap is a bigger device that the Nascar guys use on the roof. It opens when the car is going backwards after a spin and makes the car turn back nose first.) I think that body had two gurney flaps outlined on the rear part that you cut away. They are about 1/2 by 1.5 inch with a fold mark in the middle. I am not sure where you put them.
It sounds like you may have to gear a tad lower to prevent thermalling. Maybe adding 3 teeth to the spur to get an in between gear.
I watched the video. Nice pass in the middle. The car looks good. I noticed some hooking about 3 feet out of the corners. This is typical pan car handling. You need a very slight pause while the car straightens before you roll on the throttle. I actually think what happens here is the car lifts the front wheels too much, so normal tuning does not prevent this. Reverse tuning prevents this a little, a little more rear droop, slightly softer front shock oil or spring. The driving was excellent. Thanks.

Drew-I have a little concern that your saddle packs are not matched. It would be possible to drain the smaller one below its safe voltage while the car continues to run pretty well and the packs have enough voltage for the GTB not to shut off(LiPo cuttoff). This will hurt the smaller pack. Are they wired together in parallel or used one at a time.

YYhayhim-I noticed you posting your touring car is as fast as my pan. How did you measure the speed? I am having trouble believing your numbers any more.
John
No problem John, it gives me something to do. And I forgot to add in my report that I am no longer running the side shocks, I am now running the viscous disc. The viscous disc improved rear grip dramatically (softer than the shocks). Yeah I forgot they were called gurney strips but you got the idea, I ran the packs in parrallel and checked the voltage after 5 mins. Someone told me that they should discharge the same as the bigger pack will put out more amps thus discharge faster (the smaller one will discharge slower due to putting out less amps). After 5 mins the voltage was the same (maybe .01 V's different). I am going to try the heat sink before i gear down as the heat sink made a massive diffrence in my touring car (dropped 15-17 degrees C). Yeah there were a few stacks in the vid, that was my first run that day so i was still getting use to the power (you see the stack that broke off the fornt piece of lexan). I'll give a report on the heat sink after next weekend. I will be racing at the winterchamps with my touring car and thought i should try my pan at the track. The track is the one that held the 200mm worlds (Brendale or England park raceway). The 1/8ths can go full throttle on the corner on the end of the back straight in good traction, I'm going to try with my pan.
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Last edited by Drewdc90; 07-18-2007 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:32 PM   #1639
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Drew..are you using 48P or 64P gears?
Yes 48P.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:35 PM   #1640
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John are you not hitting higher then 50mph with your setup? I would think you'd be over 60mph with that. Heck in the 90's racing ovals with 1400mah batts and a 14T motor we were averaging 69mph over a 4min race. That was a huge track though but with today's technology it shouldn't be unthinkable to hit that on a road course provided the straight is long enough.
Yup..something has to be wrong here...the pan guys are telling me they can out-run and out-accelerate my mod BL TC w/ Lipo car, with them running 19T brushless w/ 6 cells. I can do 53 mph at my track with my TC, so that means they should be doing at least 50mph on the straight with their 19T and 6 cells if we were to race at our track. So, they must be running 75-80 mph with a 3.5R motor...yet John says he's only getting about 53mph...so something is wrong here. When i ran my CRC last year, with Novak 4.5R motor, I was consistently hitting 44-45mph. So with a 3.5R and longer straight I can see hitting 50-54mph range John mentions...but what I just cannot belive is that you can get John's 53mph with a 19t motor and 6 cells!!! Maybe a 10.5 PRO BL and good 7.4v Lipo you can run in the 40-42mph range...but 50mph, or faster than a good driver on TC mod w/ lipo? That's quite exagerating to say the least...however, I will keep an open mind and the best way to find out is to test and see for my self. I am getting my pan car ready and will run w/ a 10.5BL and Lipo's and see what speeds it can reach and best of all, lap times...that numbers wont lie. I plan to make videos and post them for you all to see so there be no doubts.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:55 PM   #1641
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Well unless your running a 14V LiPo other then the difference in weight it really isn't going to make a difference in top speed. The voltage is only .2v higher rated and often NiMh packs have been coming out higher then it's rated voltage. Even with a LiPo the TC is still going to be much heavier and have a lot more drag in the drive train so it should be slower in top speed then a pan car even with a slower motor. But as we all know top speed doesn't mean so much on a road course. Back before LiPo and BL, when pan cars were still somewhat popular, stock pan ran the same if not faster lap times then mod TC. What's changed between then and now? TCs have gotten better and their tire technology has gotten better. Power really wouldn't be a factor there becase even though it got better...it got better for both classes.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:22 PM   #1642
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Yup..something has to be wrong here...the pan guys are telling me they can out-run and out-accelerate my mod BL TC w/ Lipo car, with them running 19T brushless w/ 6 cells. I can do 53 mph at my track with my TC, so that means they should be doing at least 50mph on the straight with their 19T and 6 cells if we were to race at our track. So, they must be running 75-80 mph with a 3.5R motor...yet John says he's only getting about 53mph...so something is wrong here. When i ran my CRC last year, with Novak 4.5R motor, I was consistently hitting 44-45mph. So with a 3.5R and longer straight I can see hitting 50-54mph range John mentions...but what I just cannot belive is that you can get John's 53mph with a 19t motor and 6 cells!!! Maybe a 10.5 PRO BL and good 7.4v Lipo you can run in the 40-42mph range...but 50mph, or faster than a good driver on TC mod w/ lipo? That's quite exagerating to say the least...however, I will keep an open mind and the best way to find out is to test and see for my self. I am getting my pan car ready and will run w/ a 10.5BL and Lipo's and see what speeds it can reach and best of all, lap times...that numbers wont lie. I plan to make videos and post them for you all to see so there be no doubts.

my BMI DB12R with the 3.5 and 4 cells got clocked at a 63mph (verified by FHP Stalker Radar unit from neighbor across the street) before going airborn
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:46 PM   #1643
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my BMI DB12R with the 3.5 and 4 cells got clocked at a 63mph (verified by FHP Stalker Radar unit from neighbor across the street) before going airborn
That i can belive...but we are not talking abot 1/12 pan cars, rather 1/10 pan cars...someone claimed they can run as fast as PW with their 1/10 road course pan on 27T motor and 6 cells...which is a joke to me...Maybe with a 8.5 motor and LIPO...but lets not make it seem like pan cars are that fast...we have to be realistic..
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:48 PM   #1644
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Yup..something has to be wrong here...the pan guys are telling me they can out-run and out-accelerate my mod BL TC w/ Lipo car, with them running 19T brushless w/ 6 cells. I can do 53 mph at my track with my TC, so that means they should be doing at least 50mph on the straight with their 19T and 6 cells if we were to race at our track. So, they must be running 75-80 mph with a 3.5R motor...yet John says he's only getting about 53mph...so something is wrong here. When i ran my CRC last year, with Novak 4.5R motor, I was consistently hitting 44-45mph. So with a 3.5R and longer straight I can see hitting 50-54mph range John mentions...but what I just cannot belive is that you can get John's 53mph with a 19t motor and 6 cells!!! Maybe a 10.5 PRO BL and good 7.4v Lipo you can run in the 40-42mph range...but 50mph, or faster than a good driver on TC mod w/ lipo? That's quite exagerating to say the least...however, I will keep an open mind and the best way to find out is to test and see for my self. I am getting my pan car ready and will run w/ a 10.5BL and Lipo's and see what speeds it can reach and best of all, lap times...that numbers wont lie. I plan to make videos and post them for you all to see so there be no doubts.
i posted this in the other thread, but perhaps it's pertinent here too...

just for fun i looked up the 2006 paved onroad nats results.. obviously they don't run pro10's , but stock 4 cell 12th scales were averaging 14.66 sec laps (33-8:04) or so in the mains.. the winner in mod TC was puting down 14.61's (21-5:07).. that's 4cell stock against 6 cell mod tourer.. so the full blown mod tourer was 5 hundredths faster than a 4 cell pan running a stock..
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:24 PM   #1645
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E-mail back at you.

-E
Eric, I sent you e-mail since this morning and havent heard from you...are the Darkside kits in stock and ready to ship? Do have some in black CF? Can I take my Pantoura into the Darkside- maybe you have a conversion kit for CRC Pantouras? Do you accept Paypal?
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:57 PM   #1646
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[QUOTE=Drewdc90;3492540]Here are the pics and a video (sorry about the quality).

drew, is that the setup you ran?
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Old 07-17-2007, 11:00 PM   #1647
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[QUOTE=Mason;3495320]
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Here are the pics and a video (sorry about the quality).

drew, is that the setup you ran?
Yep, that was the first run of the day with no gear changes (if you mean the video). If you mean the pics then no I ran a 6000 Maxamps lipo on the other side but it swelled up (probably a dud).
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:52 AM   #1648
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John, have you tried 6 regular cells in your car for comparison to the Lipo packs?
The voltage of a Lipo pack is definatively higher, but how does internal resistance compare?
I'm asking because we might consider lipo for next year if the speed differences are not that big.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:46 AM   #1649
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Eric, I sent you e-mail since this morning and havent heard from you...are the Darkside kits in stock and ready to ship? Do have some in black CF? Can I take my Pantoura into the Darkside- maybe you have a conversion kit for CRC Pantouras? Do you accept Paypal?
Haven't seen your e-mail, but got your PM. I have both black carbon kits as well as a silver kit in stock now. I take PayPal, my address is [email protected] . I do not make any parts or conversions for the CRC Pantoura.

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Old 07-18-2007, 03:41 PM   #1650
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Haven't seen your e-mail, but got your PM. I have both black carbon kits as well as a silver kit in stock now. I take PayPal, my address is [email protected] . I do not make any parts or conversions for the CRC Pantoura.

-E
Thanks Eric...I'd like a black CF version of the Darkside I-Force, please I just dont know how much$$$ sent you another PM...help me out w/ price, will yah!!!

[email protected]

Thanks,

Yohan
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