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Old 07-08-2007, 07:14 PM   #1591
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The sealer that was used last time had sand in it, so it promoted traction. A little too much for an 1/8 scale race as tire wear started to be an issue. Perfect for a touring car or my pan car. It's out of my hands anyway. It is already purchased. Sugar water is OK, but it makes my pan car so fast they don't want to use it any more. My car starts to tear up the 1/8 scales on sugar.
John

Note that there is a new report of the P.R.C Max 10 on the previous page.
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:27 PM   #1592
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This is what I have done so far to prepare the PRC Max 10 for its next outing.

To increase low speed steering

I lowered the front roll center by removing two thin brass spacers under the upper A-arm outer pivot.

I increased the center spring tension from .041 to about .044 inch. I increased the center shock oil to 35 weight from 25. This should increase the rate and amount of weight transfer forward when I let off the throttle.

High Speed Steering on the Sweeper
I increased the front MurdochRC springs from a 8-10# white progressive to a purple 14# non progressive spring. Much as I would like to run the soft spring, if the front suspension bottoms you will lose steering traction.

I will lower the car about 1 mm or 1.5 mm.

I will increase the drag brake. This new GTB is in its default drag brake profile. I think this can be increased. I set it to max on my car. This may be the whole problem with the low speed steering.

I repolished the bottom 2/3 of the kingpins as one side was binding. This smoothed out the action.

I raised the rear of the body up 1/4 inch to give the car more forward traction at speed. More tests to come.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-08-2007 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:12 PM   #1593
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with the lipo on one side and the electronics on the other, not only are you down on weight from where i was, but it's also probably a bit further back than i had it.. any notion to just add some weight up front?
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:19 PM   #1594
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Tallyrc-The PRC max 10 car is at 40 ounces. I believe it was 1 ounce heavier in the front than the back. I reported that earlier. I will check. I will take a few ounces of lead to bring it up to legal weight. I think they need to be in the back though to produce more forward traction. This is based on my previous experience with the mostly stock wide pan cars. I think the changes I made will fix up the steering. Especially the drag brake. It was at 10% I use 27%. I look forward to another test.

My car is at 44 ounces.

I might as well ask you here. How are you finding pan car parts at stormer. My searches come up with almost nothing. 1/10 pan does bring up bodies.
John
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:50 AM   #1595
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AE part numbers for the most part.. i used the PDF manual on associated's site and just plugged them in to create that list in the other thread.. if that doesn't work i used key words like 10L. it can be a pain, but that was part of the inspiration for that other long post..
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:26 PM   #1596
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TallyRC-The part numbers worked great. I got no hits on 10L2 rear pod parts at Stormer very few with RC10L as a search title. Part numbers worked much better. They must need to rerun their search engine software.

I bought some rear pod parts at Tower to spruce up the back of the RC10 L2O Project. I will be running and testing the viscous disk on the bumps. The rear is at 220 mm in the pic. I think this is the standard RC10L2 rear width. This will work fine under the bodies that I have in stock. I may be abe to run the McAllister Jaguar body that has the closed wheel wells with this width. At 235 there is too much flex in the body post to run closed or shrouded rear wheels. I would rather the rear be 235 mm, but this would require a custom lower pod plate or spacers and an extended pinion. The L2 lower and upper pod plates do not move the motor position I am told. The only make the use of the short left hub possible. I would rather not run an extended pinion with the 3.5R motor. The pod plates I am using are listed for an RC12LC. This is a typo as far as I know. They do allow you to offset the motor more to the left for oval by having dual holes. The left of the pod is already 1 oz over weight for road course use with a brushless Novak motor.

12L3 Dampner Plate ASC 4530 in the pic did not work. It was too short and did not allow any droop, L3 lower pod plate ASC 8461 worked fine.
I also found dampener roll stops that go inside the viscous disk at tower. Usually you omit these for oval part # ASC 4518
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-associated-rc10l2-project-rear-pod.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-12-2007 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:18 AM   #1597
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John, I have been testing with timing on my Novak 3.5.
This allows you to run other gearing.
The trick is this:
Loosen the 3 rear plate screws about 3 full tuns.
Take a small straight screwdriver and prie and prod the black plastic ring between soldering tabs and the silver aluminum motor can till you can turns it with a little force.
Now you can adjust the timing.
Turn the ring counterclockwise when viewed from the solder-side of the motor to decrease timing.

Earlier, I could only run the motor with a 90T spur with a 12T pinion, and was still overgeared.
Now I have adjusted the timing to its minimum, and I run 78/12 and have more puch coming out of the corner. It now accelerates like a 4.5, but has more top speed (think 1/8th nitro top speed with 6 cells).
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Old 07-12-2007, 06:51 PM   #1598
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Mathijs-Thanks for the idea. I took a look at my two 3.5 R motors. If you look at the bottom back of the motor installed in the car, the very bottom screw that holds that cover on is a good indicator to set timing. There is a timing mark on the black ring you talk of that you were able to turn. It does support the sensor array. The timing mark on the good motor is on the edge of the screw clockwise from the screws center. On the other motor it is more toward the center of the screw which I think makes the timing move advanced on this slower motor. I will tinker with the slow one and leave the fast one alone.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-13-2007 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:20 PM   #1599
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Don't let this slip out. You're opening a can of worms and a big fight between the brushless vs. brushed people will ensue.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:11 PM   #1600
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Default Wind tunnel testing report



I know I have already posted this, but I don't think my file worked last time. This is a link to my full report on my wind tunnel testing. I hope this helps out some of your testing.

John- I am back in town. I don't think I will be able to test this weekend unless I get my HV-110 back from Castle Creations by Saturday. I had issues with it 3 weeks ago as it wouldn't arm my motor. I sent it in and havent gotten it back yet.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:07 PM   #1601
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Sydewinder-It would be no problem for Novak to lock this timing with a pin or a screw in the Stock equivalents. It is no can of worms in mod. The amount of adustment available is small. I'll tell you if I notice a difference. Now you must know that you can open even a closed endbell stock motor and advance the timing at the arm. It is not really helpful, however. You have to rely on honesty somewhat.

Nick good luck. I did notice your link was broken, but, thought it might be just me. I have my radar gun on a tripod with a trigger lock so we will have another pair of hands. I will use this to test the PRCMAX 10 on the straight tomorrow maybe. I might have a nice freshly paved 400 yard test area right out my front door by Monday. Half the street is paved today.
John

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Old 07-12-2007, 10:16 PM   #1602
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adjusting the timing on a novak motor doesn't give you any "more" power, it just shifts the power band around a bit. novak has stated this in other threads. it's not like timing on a brushed motor. i've played around with it on my 10.5. the more i advanced the timing, the more I had to gear down to keep heat under control.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:21 PM   #1603
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I just want the two motors the same. I am retarding timing on the slow one. I inspected the windings visually. They appear to be the same on the two motors. This timing ring position is a noted difference in the two motors.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-13-2007 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:32 PM   #1604
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These people have some real quality parts for pan cars...I wonder how much of it can be used on the Pantoura...

http://www.niftech.com/catalog/index...ode=1000series
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Old 07-13-2007, 07:09 PM   #1605
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yyhayim-I took a look through those parts. Some things that might help your car are the bronze pivot balls. They look like they might be teflon coated as well. RC4less has these as well. That front end really needs to move very freely to work well. If you don't have a clamp on left hub, you should get one of these as well. The Niftech ones look fine as do the IRS hubs. (And then you should make your car wide.) this will keep your tires hooked up longer as will a little more practice with the narrow car. Throttle control is the key. Do not spin the tires accelerating and wear off the treated layer of foam. I am keeping full grip for 8 minutes these days with a 3.5R motor. I was not in the beginning.

Track test 97F
They moved a bunch of the boards and hot rolled the track in preparation for sealer. Needless to say there was a huge amount of new dust unleashed onto the track. Conditions were very poor. I got a couple very short runs in before a drizzle cancelled my radar test on the straight.

The Novak Motor that I retarded the timing (dicussion above), by half a screw head width, felt better. It had more punch and felt more lively. It felt more like the other motor. More test to come with better traction at hand.

The PRCMax 10 had plenty of steering today. All the adjustments helped. I had fair traction on the sweeper now, but oversteer late in the sweeper. Previously I cured this with a 5 degree reactive caster block that takes out a degree of caster late in the turn. I think I have plenty of these as spares. I will put them on the car. I had a bit too much slow speed steering now. I can go a little stiffer on the front spring. The next session may be on a newly sealed track. It depends how much progress they make. I had installed my largest RC4less rear tires to maximize forward traction on the straight for my radar test.

I had the radar set up in the green paint inside on the sweeper. Close to and inline with, where the car reaches maximum speed. Ordinarily this is inside the flapper board. As I adjusted it to read properly, while I drove at ground level, I mowed it down with a 40 mph run. I don't drive worth a darn at ground level. The radar made a nice backspin on the tripod. Both radar and car survived and gave a reading. All I could muster today was 44 mph due to the heavy dust. Normally the car goes about 53 mph. A better location for the radar was near the end boards of the sweeper. I still got good readings there. The trigger lock clamp worked great. I could go up in the drivers stand and do 5 laps and the radar would remember the highest reading. The rain came before I could do the second car.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-13-2007 at 07:21 PM.
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