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Old 07-05-2007, 08:07 PM   #1576
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is that what those notches in the chassis are for? learning all the time.. lol those long yellow ballstuds were in lieu of new longer tierods. they came from the 190mm L3.. enjoy, i won't need it back till almost mid september..
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Old 07-05-2007, 08:12 PM   #1577
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Tally-thanks again. Two Losi truck (long) ballcups will do the same job on each tie rod. They are a little more compact, but very tough. I extend my tie rods the same way. These yellow tie rods are a nice tight fit on the balls. You might tell us the brand. That is a really nice forward center shock mount. Is it an L3T part.
I also replaced the three aluminum rear ball studs on the top plate with steel for wear reasons.
John

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Old 07-05-2007, 08:35 PM   #1578
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the yellow ball cups are RPM.. very tough, good fit but occasionally they lack rigidity (that's the trade off with nylon.. too rigid and it's hard to get that "grip"..) all of the hardware is from my old car or what i had around.. as you can tell by looking at it, i frankly have not had the time or opportunity to run it that much so i have yet to invest much time or money into the little things i'd like to change.. for instance the aluminum screws holding the top plate to the pods are a no-no.. they should be steel but the vast majority of my "rc miscelania" is still packed in boxes in the basement.. i probably should switch to the dynamic front end from the zero reactive caster parts, but i didn't have them.. that sort of stuff.. the shock mount also came with my L3T but i believe is an after market part..
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Old 07-05-2007, 09:57 PM   #1579
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TallyRc-Thanks. I can change those screws.

PRC Max 10 Trial fit of Electronics
The goal when you set up a car is get the weights where you want them. On a road car, I like side to side weights to be near equal (within a few tenths of an ounce. On a pan car I like the back to weigh a few more ounces for better forward traction. If you take off too much weight on the front, though, it tends to fly at 50 mph. So this is a tradeoff.

Here is the trial fit of the electronics. Side to side weights are .2 ounces heavier on the left side. Installing the transponder on the right side will correct this. I had a suspicion that the offset servo and all the elctronics on the right would just balance the battery on the left. This was true.

Total weight of the chassis and electronics is 29.4 ounces. This compares to 35.4 ounces for my 3-link car. I could add ballast to the Max 10 to meet minimum weight.

The Max 10 has a slight 1.2 oz excess front weight (body off). I can add ballast, though
The 3-link has a 5.7 ounce excess rear weight (body off)

Terminal Clearance on Top Pod Plate
TallyRC noted lack of clearance between the upper pod plate and the terminals of a Novak Brushless motor. Fortunately you can bend the terminals back and trim the plastic insulator on the motor. This is what I do on a wide pod. The upper pod plate could use a slight redesign to improve clearance here, so that you don't have to bend up your motor. Motor R&R is truly easy as it drops out of the bottom.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-prc-max-10-trial-fit-eectronics-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-prc-max-10-top-pod-plate-fit.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-08-2007 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:02 AM   #1580
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PRC Max 10, Final install, Ready for a Track Test.

Fail safe on receiver set. Speed control set. The battery is installed with clear double sided tape from Parma.
John
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-prc-max-10-electronics-installed-resized.jpg  
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:59 PM   #1581
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Associated RC10L2O

My like new Associated RC10L2O came today. Thanks Jim. Here are a couple of pics of the rolling chassis. There were a couple of parts added to this version of the car to improve performance over previous versions. One is a graphite brace between the two forward pivots of the T-bar. This is supposed to improve rough track performance. This is ideal for me. You should be able to see it in the pics. There are roll stop inserts now inside of the viscous disk area. These put a limit to the amount of pod roll so that it can recover from a bump to one wheel better.
There is a graphite brace between the two front suspensions.
There is a nice aftermarket forward shock mount in Aluminum.
The front suspension has long aftermarket kingpins and Wintunnel Racing springs in an Asymmetric configuration with 3/16 inline axles to run on the oval.
The chassis lends itself well to the same battery and electronics setup that I used on TallyRC's PRC Max 10.
At the moment the car is 200 mm wide at the back and 185mm wide at the front so it is a narrow pan car. I will do a test narrow and will be able to compare it to a Pantoura link Car which is also narrow.
In the future I can get the lower and upper L2 pod plates which will give the car a wider pod and move the motor slightly to the right. These pod plates, hubs, and asymmetrical chassis are the main differences between the L2 and L2O. I have a good selection of hubs on hand.

I plan to use some of the aero tricks that I learned recently to keep the front ends planted on the straight.

There are two pics again. The second one is large so you can scroll around and see more detail. Nice Car. Tests to come. We were rained out completely this week.
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-associated-rc10l2o-resized.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-associated-rc10l2o.jpg  

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Old 07-06-2007, 11:15 PM   #1582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post

Terminal Clearance on Top Pod Plate
TallyRC noted lack of clearance between the upper pod plate and the terminals of a Novak Brushless motor. Fortunately you can bend the terminals back and trim the plastic insulator on the motor. This is what I do on a wide pod. The upper pod plate could use a slight redesign to improve clearance here, so that you don't have to bend up your motor. Motor R&R is truly easy as it drops out of the bottom.
John

John,
I'm way ahead of you on the upper pod plate. This upper plate is going to replace the other plate and will be included with all MAX10 kits from now on. It will work with brushless and brushed motors.

Doug
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Old 07-07-2007, 12:12 AM   #1583
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Nice-Send me one of those puppies and I'll take a good photo of it installed on Tallys car and pass the part on to him.
John
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Old 07-07-2007, 12:21 AM   #1584
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John,
Sure thing. PM me with your address.

Doug
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Old 07-07-2007, 06:39 AM   #1585
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SWEET! thanks doug. an already great car gets better..
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Old 07-07-2007, 09:13 PM   #1586
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We had a race practice but the race was rained out. I almost had Tallys car ready last night but I had some trouble with the front body posts. They were too short for the body I wanted to run and it seems they were glued in place! I did get to run my pan with the new (older) 3.5. I had slightly better traction than normal due to the race warmup. I used one of my high voltage Max Amp packs that I have reserved for race duty only, to hold the voltage on it better. I am back in the high speed buisiness. The car was faster than ever on the straight. This is why I think. I had the good pack, the good motor, but I also had those vents in my rear spoiler taped shut. I had better forward traction. The car would almost jump to speed once I reached mid straight. Gearing 90/12. I made three passes on Nitros just entering the sweeper. The rear wing stabilized the rear more now. I had too much steering on lower speed turns. The chassis and front suspension are my latests now since the big crash that split my old chassis in half in my high speed run tests. I think I can go one stiffer on the front springs. The front bumper that is taped closed along with tape on the front chassis holes did an outstanding job of keeping the front planted on the straight. No tendency to lift at all.

John
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:27 PM   #1587
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Associated L2O to wide pan

I thought I would show these adaptors again to show the small difference in front width between a wide and narrow pan car. With more knowlege now, I have made them a minimum size. If a manufaturer had a narrow pan chassis he would only need to add a little nub of graphite and two more holes to make the car adjustable to the two common pan car sizes, wide and narrow. At the back you add a wide axle, a wide right side hub and some spacers and run with an extended pinion up to a Novak 4.5R. My front width increased from 190 mm to 212 mm.
Once you have driven wide, on a road course, its hard to go back to narrow. I will probably end up testing this chassis in a wide configuration. I am not alarmed at all at the oval chassis. I like the narrow chasses better on asphalt because they flex more.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-associated-l2o-wide-pan-adapters.jpg   Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-associated-l2o-wide-pan-adaptors-bottom-r.jpg  

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Old 07-08-2007, 06:26 AM   #1588
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seems they were glued in place!
oops.. i guess they stuck.. i had tried to fill those stripped threads with some CA. they took some abuse when set up as an F1.. feel free to cut tor drill them off..
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:39 PM   #1589
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TallyRC-I ended up putting a second set of post inboard as there were extra holes. Thanks.

PRC Max 10 continued

Track-Green: only one other racer.


This is probably the worst condition for a pan car. A totally green track. It was sunny so I got in a few runs. Tallys car is fresh from different duty so he and I expected to have to make some setup changes. I expect things to improve in the next session. The only mod I made was to tape the gap between the front bumper and the front of the body (I got no blowovers yet; I think this helps) and put in about 1.5 degrees of negative camber with 0 toe. I used a generous ride height of 8mm to avoid damaging the chassis at the back. I ran my 3-link car, then the PRC Max 10, and then my car again. I removed 1/2 coil from my cars front springs to stiffen the spring a bit. My 3-link car was very good then. I had excellent turn in with no oversteer problems now, and, good forward traction. So here is the first report on the Max 10.

The PRC Max 10 tracked straight. This is very helpful on the straight. I could use full throtte about half way down. It was solid on the straight compared to a center pivot side link car like the wide pantoura which bottoms on the worst bumps. It did not bottom the chassis, and create wear at the back of the main chassis and front of the pod plate like a link car. I have these both protected with clear tape. These traits are very helpful on a bumpy track. I should be able to go to a 6.5 mm height. Steering traction and forward traction were very low but similar to other stock pan cars that I have driven. Even though you are applying full throttle on the straight, the tires are just hopping from bump to bump and creating little traction in the second half of the straight. A smoother track would help here. The steering washed out completely on the sweeper. I was inches from the outer boards a couple of times and it is a very wide sweeper. Previously, I found this problem to be a bottomed out left front spring. I will have to investigate this. I will also have to use all of Mathijs's tricks to increase the steering traction on the car. Note this is just a first report in poor conditions. At one point I will run the car either on sugar water treated track or with a brand new sealer applied. These both will result in higher traction and better performance for the MAX 10. Novak 3.5R geared 93/13, 2s LiPo. Very drivable.

Laps were at least a couple of seconds faster with my own 3-link design both from more steering and more forward traction. I may need to add some weight to the Max 10 to get it optimized for poor conditions. This gap will shrink some with more traction and tuning the Max 10 to my track.
John

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Old 07-08-2007, 06:52 PM   #1590
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Hopefully they will use a sealer that does promote traction. When they repaved the parking lot we raced traction was awesome until they sealed it...now it is so slick we have to spray 4 gallons of sugar water to get pan cars to hook up at all.
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