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Old 06-29-2007, 10:25 AM   #1546
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ROFL - sorry to make you do all that research and math and stuff.
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:47 AM   #1547
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Boomer-Well actually I don't mind it at all. Here is some softer stuff I found as well.

Gurney Strip
One way to increase downforce of a wing with out increasing drag much is to add a Gurney Strip (or WickerBill in England I guess). This is on a full size car about a 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch 90 degree raised lip on the back of the wing. I could do this to my high speed spoiler since is is more level like a wing.

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Old 06-29-2007, 04:45 PM   #1548
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Track Test, Track very green, hot and damp.

I vacuumed some water and blew off the track. I was pretty much toast, but I did two experiments on one pack.

Toyata GT1 body with Belly Pan.
I took the belly pan and taped it to the body with 5 short red vinyl tape strips. Two on the side and three on the front. The two on the side pulled the belly pan sides up to the body edge to provide some roll clearance. The front of the belly pan meets the front of the body with little to no gap.
This is what I noticed. The rear was just a little loose 2/3 into the sweeper. I had 3 correctible mini spins there. This indicated more front traction to me.
Steering traction on the hairpins was not good. I may have some rubbing or it may be the result of the very green track.

The car looked and sounded really solid on the bumpy straight. I did not crash it, so I can't report on the crashworthiness. I think I could do a neat install by using 4 body posts on the belly pan, 2 at the front corners and, 2 at the sides instead of two on the chassis. The red tape looks good on the track like accent stripes.
I am going to test it some more with better traction. Maybe tomorrow.

To Vortex or not to Vortex
This was a good oportunity to tape those slots up on the rear spoiler down low on the Toyota GT1 body. I did so and the car tightened back up on the sweeper, (less oversteer). No more mini spins 2/3 of the way in. Hairpins were the same, but were satisfactory if I used brakes. I enter the sweeper at about 53 mph so this is the speeds I am dealing with. Something less than that. I am sticking to my conclusion that making these holes decreases downforce on the Toyota GT1 body.
Then my wheel fell off because I had a set mounted with the nonflanged front wheel bearings from the original Pantoura kit. I was using them for setup purposes.

Let me explain the vortex theory a bit. At a certain speed the airflow may cease to be laminar (smooth layered) flow accross the top of the body and actually separate from it near the back under the influence of the spoiler. If we look at a left side view of the body , rear to the right, and could see the air we might see a cylinder of air right at the base of the spoiler turning in a clockwise direction. The main flow would sit on top of this cylinder and make it spin. A purpose of those little bottom holes could be to suck this vortex out of the airstream and pull the remaining air stream down into the spoiler at high speed. At this point I have no evidence that this vortex forms at speeds below 53 mph.
John

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Old 06-29-2007, 06:19 PM   #1549
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I have been in awe with everything John S has posted until this

"....Then my wheel fell off because I had a set mounted with the nonflanged front wheel bearings from the original Pantoura kit. I was using them for setup purposes......"

J/K
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:19 PM   #1550
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Well One must stay humble.

Here is an interesting pic. Novak was nice to me. That is all I can say. I'll possibly have another custom chassis from another maker to test in a while. Results will remain confidential, but I will be able to power them both for back to back tests. I am also going to aquire an RC10L bone stock to test. Would be better to test mine with an L2. Ship me one if it is just laying in the closet and I'll ship it back. I will test this new motor immediately to see if it runs like my "late model 3.5R" or not.
Turns out I have some crash damage on my Belly pan. Happened when the wheel was coming off. It bent the front corner down and it was dragging. It may not work out on a road car after all. I will test it again tomorrow.
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-novak-gtb-twinned-resized.jpg  
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:32 PM   #1551
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Track Report 88F. Man is that more pleasant than 97F. Track very Green.

RPM's Traxxas Stampede Front Bumper as Belly Pan.
I decided to save my Belly pan for the High Speed Body. It is not really suitable for the crashes. I did get in my RPM Front Bumper For the Traxxas Stampede. They come in blue and black. It is hard to tell from the photos that it is not flat but angled right at the frame edge. I put the square part in the vise. I clamped on my Aluminum plate heat sink to the bumper and left 1/4 inch of plastic exposed to the heat gun. I was able to flatten it out. It is a nice fit on my chassis. I used two existing holes in the center of the Pantoura Chassis.

Now what I did is construct a partial belly pan with it to eliminate the gap between the body and the nose of the chassis. I put wide clear box tape on the bumper and sealed the one large opening on the chassis as suggested by Mason. Well it really worked well. No nose lift at all. No tendency to blowover. No soft dam needed. This reduces the amount that the body touches the track to 0. Very nice. This bumper will also protect the front of the chassis and only occasionally the suspension arms. I don't particularly like graphite front bumpers as they break on our track from the double thick boards.

Remanufactured Novak 3.5 R.
This recently aquired motor in the previous posts picture was delightfully fast. It pulled the 90/12 gear that I ran with my first 3.5. The induction noise wail on the straight was back in place. Top speed was very good and not achieved on the straight now with this gear. The car was still acdelerating. Excellent. I am very pleased to be back driving the GTB system again. There are absolutely no drivability problems. Run time was 9 minutes. Motor temp was only 125 F, but it was not very hot this evening. Thank you Novak. I had two good long runs before they closed the place up.

The pic is right off the track. The grey areas are track dusted on top. A second layer of tape on top might help keep things cleaner. Or just replace it every session.

John
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Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.-traxxas-jato-bumper.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 06-30-2007 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:21 PM   #1552
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i'm a little confused. are you going to get a 10l or 10l2?
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Old 06-30-2007, 08:29 PM   #1553
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I am going to get a 10L. We have one at the shop. I would like to test an L2 that someone might be willing to lend me for a couple of weeks. My car worked really well today. I have not driven a T-bar car yet to compare the two. I have driven 3 mostly stock center pivot link pan cars.

John

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Old 06-30-2007, 08:32 PM   #1554
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i'm not going to be running mine for about a month.. but mine is a MAX10 3 shock from prc... interested? you need body too or what all do you want?
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Old 06-30-2007, 08:37 PM   #1555
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TallyRC That would be great. I assume it's a T-bar car. I did test Powells wide car link chassis for the Pantoura. It would make an interesting test because I can then compare the two. I'll send you a PM. I have two new Porche GT1 bodies in hand.
John

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Old 06-30-2007, 08:43 PM   #1556
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T-bar.. yes
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Old 06-30-2007, 08:51 PM   #1557
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Sweet- Sent you a PM. Note to all. This PRC Max 10 chassis kit is available new today From Powell Racing Components. The kit must be completed with your parts in this case from an RC10L3T. The Porche GT1 body is no longer available. There are pictures of it back in the thread.

The T-plate PRC Max 10 is coming.

John

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Old 06-30-2007, 10:45 PM   #1558
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John you have PM
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Old 06-30-2007, 10:54 PM   #1559
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Jim- I got your message. Sent you a PM

Looks like I might have a near new L2 coming as well. It is possible that the LRP TC may ship soon as well. Look forward to some back to back tests. I will try to get radar readings on the straight with the exact same motor gearing and body. I will try to get lap times with a green track and with a sugar water treated track on each chassis, as well as drivability data.

Thank you two for your more than generous offers.
John

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Old 06-30-2007, 11:21 PM   #1560
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John, I ordered a LRP TC Spec from TowerH Tuesday evening, and it shipped Wednesday. $30 discount is enjoyable, too.
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