R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-02-2003, 04:03 PM   #31
Tech Elite
 
Brian McGreevy's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,081
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brian McGreevy Send a message via Yahoo to Brian McGreevy
Default

hmmm...i don't remember mentioning pan cars when i started this thread....probably because they don't have to choose whether to run foam or rubber
__________________
USVTA Member #211

Support Formula SAE - get kids into engineering!
http://motorsports.illinois.edu/
Brian McGreevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2003, 05:01 PM   #32
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

Just my two cents...

I started racing sedans outdoors on parkinglots and consequently "grew up" running rubber tires. Since I've started, I've obviously learned alot conscerning tires, inserts, saucing, preperation, etc....

Now, I've only run two races on foam tires and think that the sheer traction available is awesome... but racing on foam tires is no less "tricky" than it is on rubber tires... You have diameter, width, how rounded your edges are, sauce time, scrub time, etc... I know alot of people have said you can run foam tires from first run to 1000th run and have no change in preformance... I didn't find this true While the "fast life" of a foam tire might be longer than that of certain rubber tires, there is, nontheless, a significant CHANGE in preformance from older foams from newer foams. period.

Driving styles are different... but that's just a generalization.. I can go to 5 different rubber tire tracks and have to drive differently at each of them... from punched/pitched to smooth/subtle...

All of the above really just boils down to experience... learning from mistakes and figuring out your "ritual" if you will call it that...

BUT, the one difference that goes to the very core of the two types of racing seems to be this: On rubber tires, everyone who has a clue as to what they're doing knows that they have to drive CAREFULLY... not in respect to not hitting things.... that goes for both classes... I'm talking about when driving with other people... putting passes on other people....

With rubber tires, if you try to put a pass on someone and end up touching them/hitting them... there's a very good chance that you'll both break traction and fly off the track...resulting in both of you going slow....

With foam tires, I've found myself going around the track trying to pick off traffic with the same caution...but wind up going slow...just because that's the nature of back traffic, being slow Anyhow, to the point... I've seen alot of people drive with what's to reffered as tunnel vision on carpet tracks with foam tires... with very little regard to the cars that they're passing...either running them through, blasting them off the line, etc.... And, it seems that due to the large amounts of traction available that the car doing the "passing" of sorts generally gets away without flying off the track...IE, there are few consequences of driving like you're the only car on the track...

Now, I know that there are obvious exceptions... and you can't just go out and run like a jerk and be fast... but... I would have to say that from my experience... not only racing, but having attended a number of "big" races is that it's more often the case than it is not the case.

It is not my intention to start an argument or get anyone mad with what I'm saying... I'm just voicing my opinon and observations.... I love racing with both types of tires... I only wish there were some tracks nearby that I could run on foams with... A little learning and experience goes a long way.
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2003, 06:06 PM   #33
Tech Elite
 
Brian McGreevy's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,081
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brian McGreevy Send a message via Yahoo to Brian McGreevy
Default

Evicerator, if you've only raced foam tire twice, then how do you know that they have a different feel from start to finish? What all of us that are "pro-foam" are saying is that the traction of the tire does not decrease with its life (unless you have really, really old tires that are not good anymore). The car may act different after you true them down (referring to twitchiness), but the traction remains the same. Don't forget taht in a race night, if you don't clean your tires after every heat they will keep building more traction into them and make your car feel way more stuck to the track. Keep in mind that this thread was started to give everyone a chance to put in their two cents, but it also means people can disagree with anything you say.
__________________
USVTA Member #211

Support Formula SAE - get kids into engineering!
http://motorsports.illinois.edu/
Brian McGreevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2003, 06:09 PM   #34
Tech Elite
 
Brian McGreevy's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,081
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brian McGreevy Send a message via Yahoo to Brian McGreevy
Default

Oh and as far as the fact of people driving through others because their car is more sure-footed with foam tires, any GOOD driver wouldn't do that. If you start having hacks run foam tires, of course you're going to have that because they think "oh my car doesn't get messed up when i drive through someone, so i guess that means i can some more". A good driver would never intentionally drive through someone when passing. Passing is easier on foams because with their added grip you can drive more aggressively and make gutsier passes.
__________________
USVTA Member #211

Support Formula SAE - get kids into engineering!
http://motorsports.illinois.edu/
Brian McGreevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2003, 07:00 PM   #35
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

I have only raced on foam tires twice. At Octoberfast and Cleveland. Do you think I practiced at all or did I just throw down? Just to make it clear, because there seems to be some misscommunation going on here... I practiced alot. I tried lots of different stuff. I cleaned my tires out etc... Are you trying to tell me that if you throw down with a fresh set of foams right off the truer that they're gonna be dialed right off the bat? If you sauce them right it's not so bad... but don't you think that scrubbing your tires in for half a run is a good idea? That must mean that the tires change a little here and there.... sorry.

I'm not anti-foam... you don't need to get paranoid on me... I already said I thought racing on foam tires was dialed... relax bub All I am saying is that there is a learning curve to racing with foams, just as there is with rubber... there is no need to try to say that one form of racing is "trickier" than another... like I said in my previous post which you might have missed... it's all a matter of time and experience...

And as far as the traffic issue: I agree with you, a good driver shouldn't drive through another one.... but the fact remains that it happens... At the events I've been to and watched, I've seen alot less caution on carpet tracks than on most asphalt tracks... Again, I'm sorry to say that, but it's what I've observed

Sorry if you don't like this observation

Oh yeah... just so ya know....

Steve Weiss
2002 ROAR National Champion

Last edited by Steve Weiss; 02-02-2003 at 07:04 PM.
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2003, 07:22 PM   #36
Tech Elite
 
Brian McGreevy's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,081
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brian McGreevy Send a message via Yahoo to Brian McGreevy
Default

Whoa sorry Steve. Yes i got a miscommunication there. By saying you've raced foam twice i thought you meant like race weekends or something. Yes i do agree with you that foams right off the truer are crap. Traction Compounds and about half-lap scrubbing takes care of that though, and they really are good after that. I honestly haven't noticed any fade on foams. I practiced from September through November for Cleveland and every set i had stayed the same as they were. And yes, foam is dialed
__________________
USVTA Member #211

Support Formula SAE - get kids into engineering!
http://motorsports.illinois.edu/
Brian McGreevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2003, 07:49 PM   #37
R/C Tech Founder
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Del Mar, CA, USA
Posts: 7,063
Default

Well, this is entertaining.

I stick by what I originally said. I like rubber tires for most applications because of the realism factor, the fact that they make it a bit harder to drive, and they are great for regular club racing. No worries about cutting them down, no worries about chunking, etc. I think it's a lot easier to tell a new racer to buy & mount a set of rubbers, than to tell him or her that they need to buy some foams, true them down so they won't chunk, calculate their rollout, and so on.

For big races, though, I agree that foam tires go a little ways towards eliminating the gap between factory drivers and regular drivers. They still might replace tires more often, but nowhere near as often as rubbers.

I don't see either class dying any time soon.

And welcome to the forum, Steve.
__________________
Visit my store: www.ampdraw.com
futureal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2003, 08:11 PM   #38
ChewyPro3
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Evicerator
Oh yeah... just so ya know....

Steve Weiss
2002 ROAR National Champion
Axiom5B is sponsored by Losi, Promatch, and Axiom. It's cool having a debate between a National Champion, and a well sponsored driver.

I like rubber tires. I gave foam a try and did not do as well as I expected. Foam tires were quite a bit different from the rubber norm, and was a nice change. As for now, I'll keep the two sets of foams I bought on the shelves untill a big race comes into town and I need them. Untill then, rubber I stay.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 10:05 AM   #39
Tech Elite
 
KINGZJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: South Milwaukee,WISCONSIN
Posts: 2,089
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to KINGZJ
Default

Just because your signature says losi and promatch does not mean you are sponsored by them. If that was the case I guess I should change mine
KINGZJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 10:08 AM   #40
Tech Elite
 
DavidAlford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,151
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to DavidAlford
Default

But sometimes it does mean you are
__________________
Hot Bodies/HPI | Jconcepts | Viper RC | Xpert | Sippel Speed Shop | Lawton RC Raceway | SXT
DavidAlford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 10:46 AM   #41
Administrator
 
Matt M.'s Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,410
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

who is axiom 5b?????i would like to meet him at trackside next time......to gleen some of his imense knowledge on the foam tire....
Matt M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 11:57 AM   #42
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

Thanks for the warm welcome guys! Since the other place is "not available" for the time being, guess I'll be showing my ugly face here for a bit.

FYI when it was announced that the nats in NC were supposed to be on foam tires everyone around here (So Cal) were really jazzed to start running foams on asphalt... since that announcement has been recanted however, there still seems to be alot of interest around here to run foams at our track... a few here and there have tried it and it's hooked up pretty well.... Now there's just the matter or convincing everyone and putting them through their paces and teaching them what they need to know about it....
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 12:52 PM   #43
Tech Addict
 
tufferwilde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Whereabouts Unknown
Posts: 530
Default

Evic:

Better dust off the foams if you are going to move back to Phx!

In any case - One of the big questions that I haven't seen anyone comment on is - are we talking about Asphalt or carpet?

Regarding carpet - foams are the way to go, no doubt about it. They are incredibly consistent and the traction generated is top notch. Not to mention the fact that rubber supposedly tears up carpet faster than foams, so this might depend on the location... such as Trackside - I know that Scotty typically only allows rubbers.

Asphalt - gotta go with rubber on this one. Besides, are Foams even legal on an asphalt surface?

Cost issues - Let us be perfectly honest here - we do not have an inexpensive hobby - and it is going to be like any other competitive racing "sport" out there - some people will dump money into the hobby left and right... some people won't - the key is to put the money in the right spots.

out -
Wilde
__________________
Trackside Hobbies and Raceway: www.tracksideraceway.com
Novak Electronics: www.teamnovak.com
tufferwilde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 02:41 PM   #44
Tech Elite
 
Brian McGreevy's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,081
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brian McGreevy Send a message via Yahoo to Brian McGreevy
Default

Matt, name's Brian McGreevy, good friend of Stephen Sobottka. I'll let you know the next time Im going up to trackside as it is hard not having a car (parents). Just for clarification I am not sponsored by Team Losi. And I do run pro-match batteries strictly and I get really good stuff from them hovever, but I am not sponsored...yet ;-). I do run for Axiom Racing Motors, some of the best quality and fastest stuff you can buy. Go to www.axiommotors.com to visit their site and/or purchase their products.
__________________
USVTA Member #211

Support Formula SAE - get kids into engineering!
http://motorsports.illinois.edu/
Brian McGreevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 02:58 PM   #45
Tech Elite
 
Boomer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Southern Cal - Claremont
Posts: 3,346
Send a message via ICQ to Boomer Send a message via AIM to Boomer
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by KINGZJ
Just because your signature says losi and promatch does not mean you are sponsored by them. If that was the case I guess I should change mine
And sometimes having a LOT of posts (Pro Driver) doesn't mean anything either. . .and sometimes it does!

Tuffer - supposedly they are legal on asphalt. I know I like them better than rubber on my Nitro. . .and the one time I played with my ETC3 it was ridiculous, and that was not even on a good (SoCal) or prepared surface.

Foams really are fairly competitive with rubber. . .I've done this before but here goes again (prices from Stormers):

1 Pair Jaco 24mm blue (front) - 13.95
1 pair Jaco 28mm dbl pink (rear) - 19.95

total one set of Jaco Foams $33.90

1 pair Sorex 32r rubber (front)- 12.95
1 pair HPI Red Inserts (front) - 4.95
1 pair Yokomo Mesh Rims (front) - 4.95
1 pair Sorex 32r rubber (rear) - 12.95
1 pair HPI Red Inserts (rear) - 4.95
1 pair Yokomo Mesh Rims (front) - 4.95

total one set of rubbers - $45.70

I realize that you can re-use the inserts, so that would bring the cost of the set down to $35.90.

So, how long does a set of foams last compared to a set of rubber? That, really, would be the question. I've found that they last fairly comparably in Nitro and that they give a TON more grip and controllability at the edge.
__________________
-
RC10L2.5W - RC12.4 - RCNTC3(bmi) - TC4 (modded) - B44.2 - plus rent-a-rides! :D
Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FOAM TO RUBBER 32819toon Electric On-Road 7 07-22-2008 08:49 PM
rubber and foam tiger266 Nitro On-Road 7 08-11-2005 04:52 PM
foam vs rubber Toma2525 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 04-29-2005 12:02 AM
Foam or Rubber? pokpok Indonesia Racing 12 04-08-2004 11:41 PM
Foam Vs Rubber fastolfart Australian Racing 66 07-09-2003 04:04 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:03 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net