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Old 08-03-2006, 12:54 AM   #76
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Oh, look, a battery sponsor in your signature.
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:25 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
I don't think for a second these things will level the playing field. There will always be manufacturing tolerances in electronics that can be exploited to get "the best stuff." I've accepted that part of it. I just don't care for all the work, and for that matter, people that use the argument you just did as reason to not adopt new technology. The fact is, both of these things are better. Better for racers and better for bashers. You guys can naysay it all you want, but it's a losing battle. When these things are race legal, nobody is going to say "man, I miss the days when I could cut comms all night and discharge batteries. Now all I do is tweak my car's setup, and practice driving." Well, some guys will say it, but I bet they're not the ones winning races.
I never said I was against anything, I just pointed out that this cycle will continue; Lipo and BL are not going to be the end-all solution to our problems.
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:26 AM   #78
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Oh, look, a battery sponsor in your signature.
And what's wrong with that? If I got free Lipo packs from Orion would you still hate me? Lol.
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:01 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I don't think for a second these things will level the playing field. There will always be manufacturing tolerances in electronics that can be exploited to get "the best stuff." I've accepted that part of it. I just don't care for all the work, and for that matter, people that use the argument you just did as reason to not adopt new technology. The fact is, both of these things are better. Better for racers and better for bashers. You guys can naysay it all you want, but it's a losing battle. When these things are race legal, nobody is going to say "man, I miss the days when I could cut comms all night and discharge batteries. Now all I do is tweak my car's setup, and practice driving." Well, some guys will say it, but I bet they're not the ones winning races.
Here's the thing, you proceed from the presumption that everyone wants to win races, all the time. What if I don't? What if I just want to have FUN? See, I don't really care if I win, I just want to be able to race with other people on a track. In the current situation, in order to do that, I have to either buy a lathe or be prepared to buy replacement comms, buy brushes, and own several battery packs if I want to run the car several times in a row during practice and still race. That's not to be "competitive" that's just to participate.

With modern technology, using batteries and motors that have been around for several years now, it's easily possible to own one battery pack, one motor, and just have fun. No replacing brushes, no cooling down the battery, no switching batteries, no obsessing over what was charged when and how many minutes ago it was peaked, no caring about how much charge is left in it when you store it, and no repurchasing of expendable motor parts (maybe a bearing once a year?). Oh yeah and when you practice, no reason you can't run 15 minutes or more at a time, just like nitro.

Sure, if everyone used that technology, I might not win, because they might tweak out those new things. Okay, fine by me. But I would at least be allowed to race.

I think maybe folks who are so used to the whole brushed/nicad/nimh paradigm are so used to all it's costs and drudgery that they don't realize what a barrier that all is to someone entering or re-entering the hobby that's all. It's quite unfortunate, because I think embracing such things would really draw new people in a lot faster.
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Old 08-03-2006, 05:26 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azmio
hey, if the local tracks dont allow brushless or Lipo, change your mindset a bit. With the 4.5BL and 4800 Lipo on my 1/10 pan cars, my pan car is faster than average TC on long straight line. With the ultra light total weight, I can easily outbreak them, accelerate faster and have much shorter turning radius on sweeper and tight corners.

Try this and you will realize that it's much more fun to race with 1/10 and 1/8 nitros, than having to try harder to convince the race organizers or others to accept lipo and BL. I am now thinking of lobbying for an open class where my pan car can compete with 1/10 or even 1/8 nitros.

Long live, Spektrum, Brushless and Lipo. I cant live without these 3 items.

FYI a pan car should already be faster on the track with equal motor equal batteries... Assuming the driver can drive You talking about 2 totally different chassis. The pan has twice the tire contact and almost half the weight
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Old 08-03-2006, 06:08 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by khyron
I think maybe folks who are so used to the whole brushed/nicad/nimh paradigm are so used to all it's costs and drudgery that they don't realize what a barrier that all is to someone entering or re-entering the hobby that's all. It's quite unfortunate, because I think embracing such things would really draw new people in a lot faster.
Exactly.

I just picked up this hobby a couple months ago and I could have saved a couple hundred in equipment if I was racing BL and LiPo. Although it would be nice I'm still holding out on wasting money on a lathe and a second charger as long as I can. More importantly I would be spending much more time on the track getting practice time and more time in the pits getting chassi set up experience. Two things I'm sure we can all agree is more important than learning how to be "King Lathe Finger", lmao, and babysitting batteries.

Last week I was asking the manager at the LHS whether he was going to allow the new Novak 13.5 BL to run in stock. He wants to allow the BL but he's pretty hesitant because he's worried that by doing so it will piss off a bunch of old crusty people and they'll stop showing up for race day. What I hope he and others consider is how many new people are scared off at the sight of piles of equipment these guys have in the pits and the realization of how much work and time you have to put in just to get to run 4 races that last 5 minutes each once a week.

On another note, I would be very surprised if we didn't see this battery or some other LiPo along with a BL motor in a RTR some time soon. Maybe early next year. If that came along tracks would practically be forced into letting newbies use that equipment to race.

Man, I can't wait. This stuff is exciting.

My next question is will this lighter weight battery put most cars way out of ballance?
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Old 08-03-2006, 08:07 AM   #82
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I think the main reason why the pack isnt legal for racing is because of the voltage 7.4 compaired to 7.2 volts on a normal nimh or nicd pack.
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Old 08-03-2006, 08:22 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Wouter.Z
I think the main reason why the pack isnt legal for racing is because of the voltage 7.4 compaired to 7.2 volts on a normal nimh or nicd pack.
So who's going to be the first to invent a little gizmo that's small, lightweight, and has Deans connectors on both ends and drops 7.4VDC to 7.2VDC? Maybe it could incorporate a little fan or something to waste the extra power and cool things down at the same time?
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Old 08-03-2006, 08:23 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Wouter.Z
I think the main reason why the pack isnt legal for racing is because of the voltage 7.4 compaired to 7.2 volts on a normal nimh or nicd pack.
Close enough

I've heard the same concern as well.
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Old 08-03-2006, 08:30 AM   #85
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Along with the increased voltage, there's also the lower IR and vastly superior discharge curve. It's clearly superior technology in every possible sense, but it's going to take time.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:10 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Along with the increased voltage, there's also the lower IR and vastly superior discharge curve. It's clearly superior technology in every possible sense, but it's going to take time.
The explosions they generate when punctured are also superior

Just making a joke (kind of)... relax everyone.

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Old 08-03-2006, 09:13 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter.Z
I think the main reason why the pack isnt legal for racing is because of the voltage 7.4 compaired to 7.2 volts on a normal nimh or nicd pack.
Sorry but this is BS. (I'm not trying to start a flame, but let's not toss BS into the picture either). Just ask the big motor tuners/builders... .2 is not enough to matter. Now if you tried to say that the lower IR is an advantage, ok, that one I will give you. But then the real fact is that these are two different technologies, it is apples to oranges.

It is simple, if we really care about this hobby, and we really want to save it, we MUST be for BL, LIPO. No matter if you want to create a new class called "Masters" that allow only Brushed motors, and Nimh in that class. This is old stuff is killing the newbies.

As far as Dynoed BL and matched LiPo, great I hope that someone does it, but really, how many of us at the local club are going to run out purchase this stuff like we are headed to the nationals, and even if you do go the nationals, do you really think that the team drivers are running on stuff you can get? If you answered yes, please remove your lips from the exhaust pipe of your Ford Pinto…. You are living in a delusional world. Yes, motors and tires are handouts but really, this is one half of the equation, what about the car and setup.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:15 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by EricF
The explosions they generate when punctured are also superior

Just making a joke (kind of)... relax everyone.

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I think the leason here is do not get hacked or hack.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:17 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter.Z
I think the main reason why the pack isnt legal for racing is because of the voltage 7.4 compaired to 7.2 volts on a normal nimh or nicd pack.

the new IB4200's SHV i see are 1.245 X 6 cells = 7.47 with 1.4-1.5 IR.
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Old 08-03-2006, 09:34 AM   #90
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Joel

"FYI a pan car should already be faster on the track with equal motor equal batteries... Assuming the driver can drive You talking about 2 totally different chassis. The pan has twice the tire contact and almost half the weight "

You're right about that. With 4.5 BL, I have reached the limit. The spur cannot just go any bigger and the pinnion just cant go any lower. 3.5 is out of question.

With 6.3 final ratio and 1kg total weight, people called my car "the flying car". The power to weight ratio is kinda scary. Colin Chapman of Lotus is right about the advantages of having lightweight racecar.

The days where nitro cars tailgated and intimidated the electric cars are over. Over here, more and more people are now switching from nitro cars to EP cars equipped with brushless motor.
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