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Old 08-02-2006, 02:45 PM   #61
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MrBlack-

Well based on that reply it would seem that one would need at least 2 3200 packs for a club night of racing or will there be enough time (you think) to get enough capacity back into the pack to run the next round if there's say 45 min between rounds?

I just looking for your opinion not fact.

Thanks,
E
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Old 08-02-2006, 02:58 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF
MrBlack-

Well based on that reply it would seem that one would need at least 2 3200 packs for a club night of racing or will there be enough time (you think) to get enough capacity back into the pack to run the next round if there's say 45 min between rounds?

I just looking for your opinion not fact.

Thanks,
E
You get something like an 80% charge in 20 min. 80% of the pack should be plenty for a 5 min race. I would think...
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Old 08-02-2006, 02:59 PM   #63
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I'm gonna go for two so I don't have to sweat it. On slow race nights, it might be hard to get enough charge in the battery between rounds without bumping up the amps or something. Seems like the best way to do this and get the most life out of your batteries is with two packs. I suppose that also means you can race with those new packs for like 2-3 years without seeing much performance change in them. If I could fit a 4800 in the car easily, I'd use that and just get one, but two of the newer packs that fit right doesn't bug me too much.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:03 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF
MrBlack-

Well based on that reply it would seem that one would need at least 2 3200 packs for a club night of racing or will there be enough time (you think) to get enough capacity back into the pack to run the next round if there's say 45 min between rounds?

I just looking for your opinion not fact.

Thanks,
E
It depends on which class you are racing. I would guess that in touring modified, you will use most of the capacity and may not have time to completely recharge the pack between rounds. This is because of the 1C (3.2 A) charge rate and the CCCV charging scheme.

Other classes like off-road modified, or stock/19-turn will use less capacity so it may be possible to re-charge to 100% on time.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:04 PM   #65
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Not to get off topic but for those with the 4800's what I like to do is run either velcro on the bottom or what I have seen one driver do is apply the stick on lead weight under the battery inline with the chassis vents to both lock in the battery and balance out the weight in his chassis.
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:00 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
Not to get off topic but for those with the 4800's what I like to do is run either velcro on the bottom or what I have seen one driver do is apply the stick on lead weight under the battery inline with the chassis vents to both lock in the battery and balance out the weight in his chassis.
i`ve seen that pic (lead under the pack to fit in chassis slot`s )good idea that ,do that to mine methinks
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:39 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
It depends on which class you are racing. I would guess that in touring modified, you will use most of the capacity and may not have time to completely recharge the pack between rounds. This is because of the 1C (3.2 A) charge rate and the CCCV charging scheme.

Other classes like off-road modified, or stock/19-turn will use less capacity so it may be possible to re-charge to 100% on time.
Thanks for answering my questions. I was mainly asking in regards to 19t carpet sedan. It seems that it will not be that much of an issue.

Do you know if Scotty is going to allow the use of these at the IIC? Can you hear the controversy already?
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Old 08-02-2006, 08:22 PM   #68
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Man awesome product releases like this are such a frustrating double edged sword in R/C these days...

For those of us who are into staying on top of things, researching, reading up, and separating the FUD from the truth, this is obviously something be excited as heck about. This is easily the best packaging for a lipo pack yet, and with the lower capacity you would think someone MIGHT even finally let you race with it.

But no, for so many of us, that's not reality. For so many of us, the decisions on what's acceptable to race are made by the established racers at the track who, if you're not lucky, are often quite out of the loop and set in their ways - plus what little they hear is all FUD. These packs explode if you look at them wrong! They're bad for X, Y, and Z made up reasons. Worst of all, if you're a new or returning hobbyist, they'll counsel you spend all your money on older technologies nobody's going to want in a couple years because that's what they have.

I've actually heard people say "oh I'd never get a brushless system or lipo batteries because they're too expensive". Of course this is always said while standing in front of hundreds of dollars of gear nobody needs to buy anymore.

I know there are places out there letting people compete with more modern technologies, I just don't live near one so I'm jealous.

I respect that some folks have sunk a lot of money into their self-destructing and inefficient old gear, but come on, this stuff isn't "new" anymore, when are we going to start really adopting it? When someone releases a brand new $400 car with revolutionary improvements that put it ahead of everything, nobody cries witch and bans it from the races, they all go out and buy it. Why should these kinds of changes take years and years to integrate?

Last edited by khyron; 08-02-2006 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 08-02-2006, 08:45 PM   #69
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Man, you got it right with the FUD. There's more of it in R/C than just about anywhere else I've encountered. I've been lucky with a relatively open-minded, forgiving track, but it's definitely a hard sale in general. I fear that I've become the brushless/LiPo martyr locally because I've been talking it up a lot, but that's fine, someone needs to speak up. I race nearly every week, and I'm doing it with new stuff and not blowing myself up, killing small animals or insulting anybody's family. If I can do it...

The Wikipedia entry on FUD explains it so perfectly. It's exactly what's going on with brushless/LiPo.
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Old 08-02-2006, 08:55 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Man, you got it right with the FUD. There's more of it in R/C than just about anywhere else I've encountered. I've been lucky with a relatively open-minded, forgiving track, but it's definitely a hard sell in general.
I guess it's the inflexibility that bothers me. Like I said I totally respect folks who have been "running the same thing" for eons and they like it. Okay that's cool, but if people wanna join the hobby, should we make them buy tons of stuff before they're even allowed to race? With brushless and lipo, you can run for eons with one pack, one motor, and maybe some motor spray, done. You could even easily run the same pack in multiple classes in multiple vehicles all day no sweat.

I just wish people would let you run first, then get critical later. What if you never win and you just have fun? Are you hurting anyone? So what if you do consistently outperform the brushed or lower voltage racers? Okay fine, cripple your car in some way, gearing or dialed back endpoint, I dunno. But there should be some kind of leeway especially in places too small to have an "all lipo" or "all brushless" class is I guess what I'm saying. Not everyone wants to buy inefficient, higher-maintenance gear when better stuff has been out for years now.

I don't mean to offend anyone or be disrespectful, it's just frustrating to me that certain kinds of "new" R/C stuff are always okay the moment they come out and other things aren't. It really isn't logical. We care about the physical dimensions of cars and their weight, but we don't restrict chassis materials. We care about cells and motors, but there are basically no rules as to what magic goes on inside an ESC, or what wires, solder, or connectors one uses. There are variables all over the place that can cause huge gaps in performance which involve much larger sums of money and people exploit them all the time, so why should some common off the shelf technology take "until at least 2008" to become kosher?

Sorry to whine, I just hate looking at cool stuff like this I wanna buy so bad and can't.
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:40 PM   #71
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hey, if the local tracks dont allow brushless or Lipo, change your mindset a bit. With the 4.5BL and 4800 Lipo on my 1/10 pan cars, my pan car is faster than average TC on long straight line. With the ultra light total weight, I can easily outbreak them, accelerate faster and have much shorter turning radius on sweeper and tight corners.

Try this and you will realize that it's much more fun to race with 1/10 and 1/8 nitros, than having to try harder to convince the race organizers or others to accept lipo and BL. I am now thinking of lobbying for an open class where my pan car can compete with 1/10 or even 1/8 nitros.

Long live, Spektrum, Brushless and Lipo. I cant live without these 3 items.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:20 AM   #72
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Man I wish EVERY track had a B/L and Lipo class so I wouldn't have to read all the whining I think its great if someone wants to run the latest technology... a separate class is a great way to show case the new stuff and help drum up interest... but I want to pit my motor tuning, driving and setup skills against others with the same interests and basic equipment. Its it way too hard to combine vastly different technologies into one class with out one or the other having a distinct advantage... but I do agree that brushless (in the current form) should be allowed in the mod class however it could be, IMHO, a disaster in the stock class
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:28 AM   #73
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If you're so into motor tuning, why not just get a bunch of guys together, build your motors, and then compare numbers on the dyno? Why even bother racing them in the cars, if you're trying to compare motor tuning skills, the dyno is where it's at. You shouldn't let discrepancies in driving skill and setup get in the way of determining King Lathe Finger.

My favorite thing to do is practice buying new batteries. Some guys have gotten really good at buying new batteries through a lot of practice, and I one day hope to have a whole credit card full of charges from various matchers so I can be in their league.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:40 AM   #74
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People can believe or be against Lipo/BL all they want, but I hope you realize that even if you get your wish and they are made legal, it will all turn into the same thing. Matched Lipo packs and dyno-tuned BL motors will be developed, and then what will you say?
It comes down to one thing in the end: money. New technologies will be exploited and whored out just as much as the current NiMh and brushed motors that you hate so much.

Seriously people, can't we all just get along?
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:52 AM   #75
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I don't think for a second these things will level the playing field. There will always be manufacturing tolerances in electronics that can be exploited to get "the best stuff." I've accepted that part of it. I just don't care for all the work, and for that matter, people that use the argument you just did as reason to not adopt new technology. The fact is, both of these things are better. Better for racers and better for bashers. You guys can naysay it all you want, but it's a losing battle. When these things are race legal, nobody is going to say "man, I miss the days when I could cut comms all night and discharge batteries. Now all I do is tweak my car's setup, and practice driving." Well, some guys will say it, but I bet they're not the ones winning races.
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