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Old 11-03-2006, 11:17 AM   #391
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Uhhhh....but how does it sense where it is in the charge? Say you just use the battery for a few minutes and throw it on the charger...it's at 7.99v.

Does the charger then just go to 8.4v and assume that that level in in turn the "80% full" and add 20% of 4800 Mah worth of power past that point?

As for the balancing making them more out of balance deal...could you elaborate on that? I would have assumed that if the chargerI use (ICE) was capable of charging both cells in a consistent manner that it would be capable of charging each cell in a consistent manner?

What are some of the factors that would affect the charge consistency?

Edit: You're out at Tamiya on Saturdays, right? Maybe I'll just go out there and pick your brain...
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:18 AM   #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
This technique is not one that I would use as freezing these batteries is not recommended and can actually dmage them. I am not sure why this keeps popping up from time to time as if it worked you would here people doing it all the time , which they do not.
It`s allright MrBlack whe i was told i went for further assistence from my LHS
airplane fans
they were not convinced this is a good idea
aprt from the fact Li-Po`s don`t like the cold , it can form crystals inside the battery`s & when you charge them crystals turn to water & hey presto we have a lovely little bonfire
also charging Li-Po`s in cold conditions is`nt fun either , you have to drop the charge current to help it along or they get damaged (been busy getting more info on this Li-Po thingy )

another thing
Airplane & helicopter guy`s are using Balencers to keep the performance of the battery`s up coz the cells go out of sink after many charges thus you get drop off in runtime or power

can`t see the orion based Li-Po`s being any different
my LHS & me are dead cert that is all that is wrong with my orion pk

If the cells are out of balence there is a possibilty that they can`t be retrieved (buy a new one) if left to long

peak volts & all will be the same

A inline Charge balencer is best & most easy to use (they say)

And this is the big question MrBlack
Q)why is there so many different connections for balencers from company to company
why isn`t there a `std` connector that fit`s all
Orion tube thingy ,my guess we have to buy the orion one to do it
more money
think this is all my pack wants then it be back again
PS;;just ordered the carbon 3200 (i`m not put off by this stuff
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:29 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
Uhhhh....but how does it sense where it is in the charge? Say you just use the battery for a few minutes and throw it on the charger...it's at 7.99v.

Does the charger then just go to 8.4v and assume that that level in in turn the "80% full" and add 20% of 4800 Mah worth of power past that point?

As for the balancing making them more out of balance deal...could you elaborate on that? I would have assumed that if the chargerI use (ICE) was capable of charging both cells in a consistent manner that it would be capable of charging each cell in a consistent manner?

What are some of the factors that would affect the charge consistency?

Edit: You're out at Tamiya on Saturdays, right? Maybe I'll just go out there and pick your brain...
From what I've gathered from watching my Ice charge, it charges at the full 1C charge rate until the pack hits 8.4V which is the CC portion of the CC/CV charging method (constant current). At that point, it lowers the current to maintain 8.4V which is the CV-constant voltage part. I would guess at the point it hits 8.4 it is at the 80% point because from there it takes an increased amount of time to get a increasingly smaller amount of charge out of it.
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Old 11-03-2006, 01:47 PM   #394
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I got that part.

I'm wondering how it senses the voltage/peak/capacity. On a NiMh, a peak charger looks for a drop in voltage to sense that the battery has reached capacity...does a LiPo charger just throw in 20% more capacity from wherever it makes the 8.4v level?

I'm more interested in the "nuts and bolts" part of it. I wonder if it's a pulsed charge and they watch the battery voltage and adjust the rates from there...or whatever. How does the charger know when the battery is "full"?
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Old 11-03-2006, 02:04 PM   #395
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I'm pretty sure the charger (at least the Ice) decides it's full when the amp rate drops down to 20mA and the voltage is at 8.4. I don't think there's a set % that it will put into the pack. It will charge at whatever amp rate it can without pushing the voltage over 8.4 with it preset to stop when it gets to 20 mA. I think the amp cutoff varies from different chargers too. I also have the Orion avionics advanced charger and I think it stops at 10 mA.
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Old 11-03-2006, 04:00 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzo
I'm pretty sure the charger (at least the Ice) decides it's full when the amp rate drops down to 20mA and the voltage is at 8.4. I don't think there's a set % that it will put into the pack. It will charge at whatever amp rate it can without pushing the voltage over 8.4 with it preset to stop when it gets to 20 mA. I think the amp cutoff varies from different chargers too. I also have the Orion avionics advanced charger and I think it stops at 10 mA.
same as my ICE aswell
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:41 AM   #397
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Sometimes depending on the tempoerature out side your battery will stop at 8.41V or 8.39V. most chargers will give a Constant Current Constant Voltage (CCCV) until is senses the pack is 80% charged then it does a ramp down and at this point monitors how much voltage is needed. This is not every charger but tends to be the most common method.
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:57 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
Sometimes depending on the tempoerature out side your battery will stop at 8.41V or 8.39V. most chargers will give a Constant Current Constant Voltage (CCCV) until is senses the pack is 80% charged then it does a ramp down and at this point monitors how much voltage is needed. This is not every charger but tends to be the most common method.
my propeak prodigy II & ICE chargers do this
hit the 8.4v threshold then amps drop down untill it is 1 or even .5 amp going in

Sad news my 4800 plat has died the balencer can`t get the cells to even out
spoke to a Li-Po guru & he said if they are out of balence to long then they can`t be brought back & they stay out off balence thus
the pack goes soft in performance wise ,i have had the plat about month after it was released & used it alot
did i do the right things yes (in my eyes)
But i think getting a Balencer is a must for these Li-Po`s (not a dig)
just my very experienced advice & speaking to a lot of airplane/heli user`s they do this quite often to keep the pack `alive` & pokey

think the balencer port should be universal between companys as opposed to cutting one up to make fit (bit slap dash that )

spoke to MrBlack about this (more help then in uk i got)

putting it in a freezer was one answer (DON`T DO THIS EVER ) From distributer in the uk

has it put me off ?? No
i have a carbon 3200 coming now (like the lugs on this) very good idea

having a Li-Po saved sheds loads of time @trackside ,just top up between runs
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Old 11-09-2006, 09:37 AM   #399
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Hey Rick !!!

You hear Roar is going to Ban Li-po from their event`s ?

Another good reason to not attend Roar events ?

They will disagree of course ...
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:03 PM   #400
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Rick is out of the office today so I felt the need to say something.

Currently there is no rule for Li-Po as it is a new technology so I am not sure where you are getting this info from, as to ban something you would have had to except it in the first place?
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:12 PM   #401
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http://wwwrctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39810&pp=30

go to post #23416
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:16 PM   #402
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I tried Wild Cherry but the link you provided doesn't work?
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:21 PM   #403
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http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...page=781&pp=30
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:23 PM   #404
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Thanks CVT !!!
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:59 PM   #405
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Unfortunately there are many more companies that sell NiMh than LiPo or a combination of both so will be hard to get support against a LiPo ban. In fact I am sure a lot of companies are breathing a sign of relief.

I guess this is the time to really start a new sanctioning body?
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